Path: ...!weretis.net!feeder9.news.weretis.net!i2pn.org!i2pn2.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org>
Newsgroups: comp.theory,sci.logic
Subject: Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V2
 ---ignoring all other replies
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2024 12:26:37 -0400
Organization: i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
Message-ID: <v4kfbt$2219$8@i2pn2.org>
References: <v45tec$4q15$1@dont-email.me> <v4ak5o$3kcoe$6@i2pn2.org>
 <v4am8r$19edk$1@dont-email.me> <v4apjs$19rnv$1@dont-email.me>
 <v4arp0$1a7uo$1@dont-email.me> <v4b1c3$3nf9n$3@i2pn2.org>
 <v4b50m$1f89t$5@dont-email.me> <v4c12r$3oop0$3@i2pn2.org>
 <v4cjl7$1o4b4$1@dont-email.me> <v4d991$3qbnc$1@i2pn2.org>
 <v4da12$1sioe$1@dont-email.me> <v4dbmf$3qbnc$3@i2pn2.org>
 <v4dcd6$1sioe$3@dont-email.me> <v4df0h$3qbnd$1@i2pn2.org>
 <v4dhf5$1tsdf$2@dont-email.me> <v4dja1$3qbnd$5@i2pn2.org>
 <v4djhf$1tsdf$6@dont-email.me> <v4dk7b$3qbnc$8@i2pn2.org>
 <v4dl3b$225kb$1@dont-email.me> <v4dn5u$3qbnd$8@i2pn2.org>
 <v4dop4$22o4a$2@dont-email.me> <v4dq07$3qbnc$12@i2pn2.org>
 <v4dqq0$2353n$1@dont-email.me> <v4el9m$3rsd6$3@i2pn2.org>
 <v4f3ec$2akmh$2@dont-email.me> <v4g65a$3tn6q$1@i2pn2.org>
 <v4k906$3gc4t$4@dont-email.me> <v4kaas$2218$14@i2pn2.org>
 <v4kamr$3gc4t$8@dont-email.me> <v4kb10$2218$15@i2pn2.org>
 <v4kdgf$3h3iu$4@dont-email.me> <v4kef8$2cg4$1@i2pn2.org>
 <v4kev7$3h3iu$6@dont-email.me>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2024 16:26:37 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: i2pn2.org;
	logging-data="67625"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@i2pn2.org";
	posting-account="diqKR1lalukngNWEqoq9/uFtbkm5U+w3w6FQ0yesrXg";
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird
Content-Language: en-US
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 4.0.0
In-Reply-To: <v4kev7$3h3iu$6@dont-email.me>
Bytes: 4655
Lines: 65

On 6/15/24 12:19 PM, olcott wrote:
> On 6/15/2024 11:11 AM, joes wrote:
>> Am Sat, 15 Jun 2024 10:54:54 -0500 schrieb olcott:
>>> On 6/15/2024 10:12 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>> On 6/15/24 11:07 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>> On 6/15/2024 10:00 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>> On 6/15/24 10:37 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>> On 6/13/2024 8:24 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 6/13/24 11:32 AM, olcott wrote:
>>
>>>>> *Then do as I originally requested and provide ALL OF THE STEPS*
>>>> The mapping, for this H and D, is:
>>>> (D,D) -> 1
>>> I am asking for a mapping from the machine language finite string of the
>>> input to H(D,D) to each of the individual steps of the behavior of D(D).
> 
> *THIS SEEMS WAY WAY OVER YOUR HEAD*
> It is contingent upon you to show the exact steps of how H computes
> the mapping from the x86 machine language finite string input to
> H(D,D) using the finite string transformation rules specified by
> the semantics of the x86 programming language that reaches the
> behavior of the directly executed D(D)

Why is that contingent on anyone but the programmer who claims to be 
able to write such a decider?


> The first six steps of this mapping are when instructions
> at the machine address range of [00000cfc] to [00000d06]
> are simulated/executed.
> 
> After that the behavior of D correctly simulated by H diverges
> from the behavior of D(D) because the call to H(D,D) by D
> correctly simulated by H cannot possibly return to D.

Which just shows that H can not actually correctly simulate all of the 
behavior of the input, but it always gives up and just guesses at an 
answer, which is wrong.

> 
> _D()
> [00000cfc](01) 55          push ebp
> [00000cfd](02) 8bec        mov ebp,esp
> [00000cff](03) 8b4508      mov eax,[ebp+08]
> [00000d02](01) 50          push eax       ; push D
> [00000d03](03) 8b4d08      mov ecx,[ebp+08]
> [00000d06](01) 51          push ecx       ; push D
> [00000d07](05) e800feffff  call 00000b0c  ; call H
> [00000d0c](03) 83c408      add esp,+08
> [00000d0f](02) 85c0        test eax,eax
> [00000d11](02) 7404        jz 00000d17
> [00000d13](02) 33c0        xor eax,eax
> [00000d15](02) eb05        jmp 00000d1c
> [00000d17](05) b801000000  mov eax,00000001
> [00000d1c](01) 5d          pop ebp
> [00000d1d](01) c3          ret
> Size in bytes:(0034) [00000d1d]
> 
> 
> 
>> D calls H, which by definition terminates. From its return value we fork
>> to either enter an endless loop or halt. Then H (which is not allowed to
>> simulate D if that doesn't halt) gives the result we just used to fork.
>>
>