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Path: ...!feed.opticnetworks.net!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> Newsgroups: comp.theory,sci.logic,comp.ai.philosophy Subject: Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V3 ---IGNORING ALL OTHER REPLIES Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2024 19:05:01 -0500 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 90 Message-ID: <v4la7d$3m8b0$4@dont-email.me> References: <v4kf3h$3h3iu$7@dont-email.me> <v4kfoa$2218$19@i2pn2.org> <v4l2mr$3l6pa$1@dont-email.me> <v4l6gg$3n5d$1@i2pn2.org> <v4l87j$3m8b0$2@dont-email.me> <v4l8jn$3n5d$3@i2pn2.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2024 02:05:01 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="2f28c05d249972130f2ddc6107b08476"; logging-data="3875168"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/AI6O8u5DE1bAtGo9UU4aq" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cancel-Lock: sha1:uoM37PhBEvIjCWLX9GcVdIwLymc= Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: <v4l8jn$3n5d$3@i2pn2.org> Bytes: 4902 On 6/15/2024 6:37 PM, Richard Damon wrote: > On 6/15/24 7:30 PM, olcott wrote: >> On 6/15/2024 6:01 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>> On 6/15/24 5:56 PM, olcott wrote: >>>> On 6/15/2024 11:33 AM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>> On 6/15/24 12:22 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>> On 6/13/2024 8:24 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>> > On 6/13/24 11:32 AM, olcott wrote: >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> It is contingent upon you to show the exact steps of how H >>>>>> computes >>>>>> >> the mapping from the x86 machine language finite string input to >>>>>> >> H(D,D) using the finite string transformation rules specified by >>>>>> >> the semantics of the x86 programming language that reaches the >>>>>> >> behavior of the directly executed D(D) >>>>>> >> >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Why? I don't claim it can. >>>>>> >>>>>> The first six steps of this mapping are when instructions >>>>>> at the machine address range of [00000cfc] to [00000d06] >>>>>> are simulated/executed. >>>>>> >>>>>> After that the behavior of D correctly simulated by H diverges >>>>>> from the behavior of D(D) because the call to H(D,D) by D >>>>>> correctly simulated by H cannot possibly return to D. >>>>> >>>>> Nope, the steps of D correctly simulated by H will EXACTLY match >>>>> the steps of D directly executed, until H just gives up and guesses. >>>>> >>>> >>>> When we can see that D correctly simulated by H cannot possibly >>>> reach its simulated final state at machine address [00000d1d] >>>> after one recursive simulation and the same applies for 2,3,...N >>>> recursive simulations then we can abort the simulated input and >>>> correctly report that D correctly simulated by H DOES NOT HALT. >>> >>> Nope. Because an aborted simulation doesn't say anything about Halting, >>> >> >> It is the mathematical induction that says this. >> > WHAT "Mathematical Induction"? > A proof by induction consists of two cases. The first, the base case, proves the statement for n = 0 without assuming any knowledge of other cases. The second case, the induction step, proves that if the statement holds for any given case n = k then it must also hold for the next case n = k + 1 These two steps establish that the statement holds for every natural number n. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_induction It is true that after one recursive simulation of D correctly simulated by H that D does not reach its simulated final state at machine address [00000d1d]. *We directly see this is true for every N thus no assumption needed* It is true that after N recursive simulations of D correctly simulated by H that D does not reach its simulated final state at machine address [00000d1d]. _D() [00000cfc](01) 55 push ebp [00000cfd](02) 8bec mov ebp,esp [00000cff](03) 8b4508 mov eax,[ebp+08] [00000d02](01) 50 push eax ; push D [00000d03](03) 8b4d08 mov ecx,[ebp+08] [00000d06](01) 51 push ecx ; push D [00000d07](05) e800feffff call 00000b0c ; call H [00000d0c](03) 83c408 add esp,+08 [00000d0f](02) 85c0 test eax,eax [00000d11](02) 7404 jz 00000d17 [00000d13](02) 33c0 xor eax,eax [00000d15](02) eb05 jmp 00000d1c [00000d17](05) b801000000 mov eax,00000001 [00000d1c](01) 5d pop ebp [00000d1d](01) c3 ret Size in bytes:(0034) [00000d1d] > You haven't shown the required pieces for an inductive proof. > > I doubt you even know what you need to do, let alone be able to do it. -- Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer