Path: ...!3.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!news.mb-net.net!open-news-network.org!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory,sci.logic
Subject: Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) --- Truth
 Itself is not Broken.
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2024 20:57:29 -0500
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 421
Message-ID: <v4lgq9$3rfk3$3@dont-email.me>
References: <v45tec$4q15$1@dont-email.me> <v4ivig$kqh$9@i2pn2.org>
 <v4ivti$39gh7$2@dont-email.me> <v4j28d$kqh$10@i2pn2.org>
 <v4j2ck$39ub0$1@dont-email.me> <v4j2u4$kqh$13@i2pn2.org>
 <v4j3bd$3a0ot$2@dont-email.me> <v4js1c$2218$2@i2pn2.org>
 <v4k5aq$3fnqu$3@dont-email.me> <v4k69h$2218$3@i2pn2.org>
 <v4k84g$3gc4t$2@dont-email.me> <v4k9gi$2219$2@i2pn2.org>
 <v4kafp$3gc4t$7@dont-email.me> <v4kbc0$2218$16@i2pn2.org>
 <v4kcn5$3h3iu$3@dont-email.me> <v4kdcc$2218$18@i2pn2.org>
 <v4kefm$3h3iu$5@dont-email.me> <v4kf8g$2219$7@i2pn2.org>
 <v4kflr$3hugj$2@dont-email.me> <v4kg3f$2218$20@i2pn2.org>
 <v4kgop$3hugj$3@dont-email.me> <v4khir$2219$9@i2pn2.org>
 <v4ki8q$3ib3p$1@dont-email.me> <v4kim5$2219$11@i2pn2.org>
 <v4kj9m$3iid3$1@dont-email.me> <v4kjod$2218$22@i2pn2.org>
 <v4kl14$3ircc$1@dont-email.me> <v4klf7$2219$13@i2pn2.org>
 <v4kp9p$3jfm0$2@dont-email.me> <v4l6q6$3n5d$2@i2pn2.org>
 <v4l83h$3m8b0$1@dont-email.me> <v4l9ea$3n5d$4@i2pn2.org>
 <v4lc8n$3n4dj$1@dont-email.me> <v4le45$3n5d$6@i2pn2.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2024 03:57:30 +0200 (CEST)
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="2f28c05d249972130f2ddc6107b08476";
	logging-data="4046467"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org";	posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/2w3DIjVbzjrvdSfO0dg+2"
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird
Cancel-Lock: sha1:4ahXgAAMLVAzVjX+pTSsKGPM7/M=
Content-Language: en-US
In-Reply-To: <v4le45$3n5d$6@i2pn2.org>
Bytes: 16607

On 6/15/2024 8:11 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
> On 6/15/24 8:39 PM, olcott wrote:
>> On 6/15/2024 6:51 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>> On 6/15/24 7:28 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>> On 6/15/2024 6:06 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>> On 6/15/24 3:16 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>> On 6/15/2024 1:10 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>> On 6/15/24 2:03 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 6/15/2024 12:41 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 6/15/24 1:33 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 6/15/2024 12:23 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/15/24 1:16 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> It is not circular because *the paths are of different types*
>>>>>>>>>>>> It is only asking a question about one of these path types at
>>>>>>>>>>>> a time thus never actually circular.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The DEFINITION of {Thing} depends on {Physically existing thing}
>>>>>>>>>>> The DEFINITION of {Physically existing thing} depends on {Thing}
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> That is a CYCLE
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Then every conditional branch always specifies an infinite loop.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  From what?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The question: What are your parent types stops that {thing}
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yes, but the question: "What is a {thing}?" is defined by a 
>>>>>>>>> cycle if its only definition is its relationships.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The question: What is a {thing} moves downward to its child types
>>>>>>>> to a finite recursive depth.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No, the question is "What is a {thing}"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Of course everyone can see that these two identical questions
>>>>>> have NOTHING to do with each other:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "What is a {thing}?"
>>>>>> "What is a {thing}?"
>>>>>
>>>>> So, where do you get the anser?
>>>>>
>>>>> Note, it is "what is a {thing}?" and NOT "what are the children of 
>>>>> {thing}?"
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The child nodes in a knowledge ontology exhaustively
>>>> specify the most subtle nuance of detail about each
>>>> and every thing in the set of all general knowledge.
>>>>
>>>
>>> HOW?
>>>
>>> All you have IN THE SYSTEM that you have shown is a parent-child 
>>> relationship between terms.
>>>
>>> If the system is just describing that relationship, is says NOTHING 
>>> about the actual meaning of the words.
>>>
>>> I don't think you even know what a definition is or what meaning means.
>>>
>>
>> I guess that you can't begin to understand this
>> without deep understanding of knowledge ontologies.
> 
> I understand them, and the graph itself gives you the 
> interrelationships, but you still need to assign meaning to the terms or 
> some form of linkage of the nodes in the graph to the thing they are 
> supposed to represent.
> 

{78ce6fe0-f304-4918-9c6e-852958455689}
<26bc2b12-ff16-4552-a364-8efc2943f1f4>
{f7b78c94-1871-4a8e-85ab-bd2840fa8375}

Would be understood to mean {cat} <is a> {animal}

>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You seem to like wrong questions.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You seems to deny the identity principle.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The question: What are your child types always stops at some 
>>>>>>>>>> fixed
>>>>>>>>>> recursive depth.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> *NO INFINITE LOOP HERE*
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Because you keep asking the wrong questions, because you close 
>>>>>>>>> your eyes to the truth.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> When you don't have a clue you resort to rhetoric entirely bereft
>>>>>>>> of any supporting reasoning because this is very convincing to
>>>>>>>> clueless wonders and utterly hollow to those that have a clue.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nope, You just don't seem smart enpough to understand the issues.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That you can't point to any specific gaps in my reasoning proves
>>>>>> that you only have baseless rhetoric. I think that we established
>>>>>> that my IQ is higher than yours haven't we? I forget.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I Have.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You have not.
>>>>
>>>>> You don't understand.
>>>>>
>>>>> An no, your IQ is NOT higher than mine.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Do you even remember that conversation?
>>>
>>> You don't remember the test score I remembered getting?
>>>
>>> You said it was impossible.
>>>
>>
>> I don't remember. I did meet Mensa's Jerry baker at a Mensa
>> meeting he had an IQ 4.7 standard deviations above the mean.
>> You are not understanding things that every MIT BSCS would know.
> 
> Which just shows your stupidity, as MIT doesn't HAVE a BSCS degree.
> 

No wonder.

> And, I would put it as YOU don't understand material that is fundamental 
> to the field.
> 
>>
>>>
>>> Since that is the only IQ number I have mentioned, clearly yours is 
>>> not that high.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> To find the meaning of {Thing} we trace it to {Physically 
>>>>>>>>>>> existing thing} which then traces to {Thing}
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Do you not understand what a cycle is?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The tree traversal can move up the tree or down the tree
>>>>>>>>>>>> until is reaches the node where it stops.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> What are your parent types?
>>>>>>>>>>>> What are your child types?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> But that doesn't define what a {Thing} actually represents. 
========== REMAINDER OF ARTICLE TRUNCATED ==========