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From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V3
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Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2024 07:53:32 -0500
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On 6/16/2024 3:34 AM, Mikko wrote:
> On 2024-06-16 03:22:56 +0000, olcott said:
> 
>> On 6/15/2024 9:02 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>> On 6/15/24 9:39 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>> On 6/15/2024 8:13 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>> On 6/15/24 8:44 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>> On 6/15/2024 6:57 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>> On 6/15/24 7:40 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 6/15/2024 6:15 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 6/15/24 2:55 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 6/15/2024 1:08 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/15/24 1:39 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/15/2024 12:17 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/15/24 12:57 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/13/2024 8:24 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/13/24 11:32 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is contingent upon you to show the exact steps of how 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> H computes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the mapping from the x86 machine language finite string 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> input to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> H(D,D) using the finite string transformation rules 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> specified by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the semantics of the x86 programming language that 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reaches the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> behavior of the directly executed D(D)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why? I don't claim it can.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When I ask you to provide the mapping from the input
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to H(D,D) to each step of the behavior of D(D) and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and you refuse then within Socratic questioning you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have proved to not be interested in an honest dialog.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, by asking a Red Herring question,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> *In other words you DO NOT WANT AN HONEST DIALOGUE*
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> No, YOU do not what honest dialogs, as you ask me to try to 
>>>>>>>>>>> prove something I don't claim to be do able, and I say why?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In other words you flat out do not understand that H is not
>>>>>>>>>> being asked about the behavior of D(D).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Then you don't understand that you just flat out admitted that 
>>>>>>>>> your H isn't a Halt Decider, and thus you have proven anything 
>>>>>>>>> about the Halting Problem.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You are either too stubborn or too ignorant to understand that
>>>>>>>> deciders report on what their input specifies and thus not what
>>>>>>>> you think that this input should mean.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And, if the decider is a "Halt Decider" then the meaning of there 
>>>>>>> inputs is a reperesentation of a machine whose behavior the 
>>>>>>> decider is supposed to decide on. PERIOD.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dogma counts for less than nothing. Bots can parrot textbooks.
>>>>>> You must show the reasoning the enables H to see the behavior of 
>>>>>> D(D).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Nope, DOGMA is TRUTH in fields with actual authority.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The is a formal error of reasoning and you probably have no clue.
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority
>>>>
>>>
>>> Nope, not if the "Authority" is the DEFINITIONS of the system.
>>>
>>
>> If the authority defines squares as round and no one notices
>> this since 1936, the4n someone can come along as say that
>> definition is proved wrong by its incoherence.
>>
>>> When we use the Dogma of a formal system, i.e. its formmal 
>>> definitions, we are not relying on the "opinion" of an influential 
>>> figure, but upon the formal definitions of the system, that is, its 
>>> primary Truth-makers.
>>>
>>> Again, you are just showing you don't understand that meaning of terms.
>>>
>>
>> I am over-ruling the incoherent meaning of terms.
> 
> You can present your own definition of a term but only before the first
> use of the term in your message (or other opus). That overrules the
> meaning for that message but not for any other, so you must overrule
> again for each message that uses the term.
> 
> A better way is to avoid using terms that don't mean what
> needs be meant.
> 

When we define that the input to HH(DDD,DDD) specifies the
behavior of the directly executed DDD(DDD) we are simply wrong.

_DDD()
[00001ee3] 55               push ebp
[00001ee4] 8bec             mov ebp,esp
[00001ee6] 8b4508           mov eax,[ebp+08]
[00001ee9] 50               push eax      ; push DDD
[00001eea] 8b4d08           mov ecx,[ebp+08]
[00001eed] 51               push ecx      ; push DDD
[00001eee] e820f5ffff       call 00001413 ; call HH
[00001ef3] 83c408           add esp,+08
[00001ef6] 5d               pop ebp
[00001ef7] c3               ret
Size in bytes:(0021) [00001ef7]


-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer