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From: "Edward Rawde" <invalid@invalid.invalid>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: British (european?) kitchen counter electric outlets
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2024 14:46:29 -0400
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"Don Y" <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote in message news:v4nb4p$5pn2$1@dont-email.me...
> On 6/16/2024 1:16 AM, TTman wrote:
>> On 10/06/2024 01:41, Don Y wrote:
>>> On 6/9/2024 3:50 PM, TTman wrote:
>>>>> Yes, I've seen that. And, they are *huge* (comparatively speaking;
>>>>> a duplex receptacle, here, is a ~1x~3 inch device about an inch thick).
>>>>>
>>>>> Ours also reside *in* the wall; I seem to remember the ones in England
>>>>> were "on" the wall (?)
>>>>
>>>> In the UK we have slim sockets now.... protruding maybe 2mm from the wall.
>>>
>>> So, they fit *into* the wall? Is the wiring concealed in the wall and
>>> routed to the outlet(s) from within?
>>
>> Yes. Our 'old'houses have internal walls made of either brick (4" thick) and plastered. it's hard to recess the brick to take 
>> power sockets, but quite common. The cabling runs down the cavity (4") between the internal brickwork and external brickwork.
>
> *TWO* brick walls between the occupants and the out-of-doors?

Yes it's known as a cavity wall.
Our house was like that, and there was no such thing as drywall (or plasterboard as it would be known in the UK).
The inside wall is plastered with plaster by the plasterers (people who do the plastering).

>
> A brick home (here) would tend to have internal drywall walls (or plaster
> on lath) furred out off of the exterior brick.  The distance between
> brick and drywall can vary (depending on quality of insulation).
>
> Here, for example, the gap behind the drywall is about an inch (no insulation
> other than a vapor barrier).  So, outlets (and other junction boxes) in walls
> that are along the outside of the building are notched into the brick *behind*
> (outside of) the drywall.
>
> Some lower quality builds (e.g., apartment houses) may just have block walls
> that are painted (cosmetics) so the interior and exterior are separated
> solely by the block wall.
>
> Non-living spaces (garages) often have surface mounted junction boxes with
> cables interconnecting them run through EMT (or, rigid conduit for some
> commercial establishments).  But, residences have minimal requirements
> for electric service *in* the garage (and, power for a garage door opener
> will be overhead so no need to deal with a block wall to install that wiring)
>
> Here, for example, I have several retractable extension cords ("cord reel")
> mounted on the ceiling with the receptacle ends just above head height.
> So, you can bull a cord down to address your needs.  This lets me have
> a lot of outlets as well as freeing up the wall space for shelving (instead
> of having to maintain access to a wall-mounted receptacle).
>
> <https://www.newark.com/productimages/large/en_US/16M8845-40.jpg>
>
> [Mine are rescues from some hospital equipment where the plug end
> was the retractable portion -- roll the device up to the patient's
> bedside, pull out plug and extend cord to reach a nearby outlet.
> I simply swapped the functions of the fixed and extendable ends]
>
>> Newer houses have internal stud walls built from 4x2 and 12mm plasterboard screwed to that. Sockets are easy to fit on that. By 
>> sockets I mean a box to which the power socket is screwed by way of 2 screws.
>
> What you seem to call a socket we would call a junction box (Jbox).
> These come in different sizes/configurations/mountings and are
> made of metal or plastic (older ones were made of bakelite).  E.g.,
> a box intended to be installed in a masonry wall is designed to be
> "mudded" in place:
>
> <https://images.homedepot-static.com/productImages/9731e951-f1f7-4ca2-b055-b0d1c9145d1c/svn/raco-boxes-brackets-696-64_1000.jpg>
>
> vs. a regular 2G box:
>
> <https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/27083703-2b11-4b7b-ab61-34a32d80e2ee_1.d61079d669dce88b1fcd12da5222a77c.jpeg>
>
> <https://www.thespruce.com/electrical-switch-and-junction-boxes-1824666>
>
> The wiring (and wired "device" -- switch/outlet) is intended to be
> entirely contained within the box.  There are rules for the size of the box
> required for the "stuff" that will be contained within (wire, clamps,
> wirenuts, devices, etc.)
>
> [I like metal boxes as you can remove/reinstall the devices without
> fear of "stripping" the plastic into which they are fastened.  I
> also like oversized boxes so their contents aren't cramped/overstuffed.]
>