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From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V2
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2024 13:50:59 -0500
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On 6/16/2024 1:33 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
> On 6/16/24 2:10 PM, olcott wrote:
>> On 6/16/2024 1:06 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>> On 6/16/24 1:44 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>> On 6/16/2024 10:02 AM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>>>>> olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 6/16/2024 9:16 AM, joes wrote:
>>>>>>> Am Sun, 16 Jun 2024 07:44:41 -0500 schrieb olcott:
>>>>>>>> On 6/16/2024 2:50 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Whenever a decider is run it answers the question it is made to 
>>>>>>>>> answer.
>>>>>>>> Not necessarily. Just because everyone falsely assumes that D 
>>>>>>>> correctly
>>>>>>>> simulated by H must have the same behavior as the directly 
>>>>>>>> executed D(D)
>>>>>>>> does not make this false assumption true.
>>>>>
>>>>>>> You still need to explain how you can call a simulation that 
>>>>>>> differs from
>>>>>>> the behaviour of its input "correct".
>>>>>
>>>>> Indeed, you do.
>>>>>
>>>>>> I have proven it many times and this proof is simply over
>>>>>> everyone's heads.
>>>>>
>>>>> Nonsense!  How about, instead of "proving", actually explaining?  If a
>>>>> simulation differs from its original, it's not a simulation; it's 
>>>>> just a
>>>>> random program.
>>>>>
>>>>>> When I ask what your C programming skill level is, this *is not* a
>>>>>> rhetorical question.
>>>>>
>>>>> The question has nothing to do with C programming.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> typedef void (*ptr)(); // pointer to void function
>>>> int H(ptr P, ptr I);
>>>>
>>>> int D(int (*x)())
>>>> {
>>>>    int Halt_Status = H(x, x);
>>>>    if (Halt_Status)
>>>>      HERE: goto HERE;
>>>>    return Halt_Status;
>>>> }
>>>>
>>>> Unless I make every single detail 100% explicit false
>>>> assumptions always slip though the cracks. The ONLY way
>>>> to make EVERY SINGLE DETAIL 100% EXPLICIT is the x86
>>>> programming language.
>>>>
>>>> There cannot possibly be any H that correctly emulates
>>>> the x86 machine code of D according to the semantics
>>>> of the x86 programming language such that the emulated
>>>> D ever reaches its own emulated final state at machine
>>>> address [00001f58].
>>>>
>>>
>>> Which is just a strawman, as the requirement on H is NOT to answer 
>>> about "D correctly simulated by H" but about "the program represented 
>>> by the input directly executed", or equivalently, simulated by an 
>>> actual UTM, which is a simulator that NEVER stops until it reaches a 
>>> final state.
>>>
>>
>> This is simply over-your-head.
>> I am very glad of that because the alternative would
>> possibly condemn your soul to Hell.
> 
> Whats over my head? That the definition of a Halt Decider beihg that it 
> decides on the behavior of the program represented by the input halting 
> when run?
> 

void DD0()
{
   HH0(DD0);
}

int main()
{
   HH0(DD0);
}

That the machine language finite string input DD0
to any simulating halt decider HH0(DD0) cannot
possibly even ask about the behavior of DD0().

-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer