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From: Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: British (european?) kitchen counter electric outlets
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2024 13:17:50 -0700
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On 6/16/2024 1:26 AM, TTman wrote:
> Many houses have natural gas central heating to heat water filled radiators. 
> Some apartments/ blocks of flats usually have electric night storage radiators. 
> Current 'normal' electric costs ~23p/kWh. My 4 bed detached house ( we're 

Our regular tariff has DELIVERED electricity running about 15c/KWHr.  The
electrons cost about 4c but add another 10c to get them to your home!

There are additional taxes, surcharges, "meter" charge (for the "privilege"
of being able to receive electricity), etc.  Last month's 640KWHr cost us
$130.   This will likely climb to ~1500KWHr this month and for the next
few months (air conditioning is a HUGE electrical load -- it drops to 80F
around midnight and is up above that shortly after sunrise)

But, we also are not particularly good at conserving energy; I bake a
couple of times each week, all of our meals are hot, a gallon of hot water
for tea each day, a 16cu ft freezer (in the garage!  :< ) and 20 cu ft
refrigerator, at least one TV on most of the day, etc.

[I abhor *cooking* with gas so gas is just DHW and GFA.]

Plus, all of the "vampire" loads -- the cordless phones, cell phones,
ereaders and tablets, TVs and HiFis, microwave oven, stove, refrigerator,
dishwasher, washer, dryer, a dozen UPSs, 15 monitors, at least three
computers in use (plus others "sleeping"), modem, router, amplified
speakers, DVR, media tank, garage door opener, clocks, printers, scanners,
etc.  Nothing has a "hard" power switch, anymore (even the damn fans have
"remotes"!).

> retired) used to use 270 kWh/month. total cost then was around £90/month 
> including 5% vat. We also have to pay a 'standing charge' of 60p /day ( robbery 

Our "meter charge" is $15/mo.  There are 7 different "taxes".

> charge). I now have solar + 9.5kW battery . Summer months I'm a net exporter. 
> Winter my bills are tiny. I import cheap overnight ( somtimes I get paid to 
> import!) ~10p/kWh and runn off the battery all day . On a sunny day, I import 
> less the following morning.

Here, the load needs to be addressed more than the supply.  E.g., the ACbrrr
is ~14KW and runs at ~30% duty cycle.  As floor plans here tend to be "open",
there is no practical way to reduce the cooling load.  With minisplits and
intelligent controls, we could conceivably arrange to shift the active load
to different rooms to keep our peak load below whatever an array could
deliver (most seem to be 6KW to 10KW arrays and, obviously, don't help with
your late day/overnight cooling loads!)

But, minisplits are so "industrial" looking.  When someone comes up with
a way to retrofit the evaporators to the individual *vents* (running the
plumbing through the existing ducts), then they will see more residential use
(beyond just in garages).

Any surplus that you deliver to the grid would be compensated at 5c/KWHr
(the value of the electrons!) and purchased BACK from them at ~20c (taxes
and fees) when the sun has set.

I.e., every day you would consume all of your stored charge plus more!

(Our two "all electric" neighbors see $300+ monthly bills every month -- and
complain about how cold their houses are (heat pumps) in the MILD winter)