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From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) V2
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2024 08:33:41 -0500
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On 6/16/2024 2:01 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
> On 6/16/24 2:50 PM, olcott wrote:
>> On 6/16/2024 1:33 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>> On 6/16/24 2:10 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>> On 6/16/2024 1:06 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>> On 6/16/24 1:44 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>> On 6/16/2024 10:02 AM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>>>>>>> olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 6/16/2024 9:16 AM, joes wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Am Sun, 16 Jun 2024 07:44:41 -0500 schrieb olcott:
>>>>>>>>>> On 6/16/2024 2:50 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Whenever a decider is run it answers the question it is made 
>>>>>>>>>>> to answer.
>>>>>>>>>> Not necessarily. Just because everyone falsely assumes that D 
>>>>>>>>>> correctly
>>>>>>>>>> simulated by H must have the same behavior as the directly 
>>>>>>>>>> executed D(D)
>>>>>>>>>> does not make this false assumption true.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You still need to explain how you can call a simulation that 
>>>>>>>>> differs from
>>>>>>>>> the behaviour of its input "correct".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Indeed, you do.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have proven it many times and this proof is simply over
>>>>>>>> everyone's heads.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nonsense!  How about, instead of "proving", actually explaining? 
>>>>>>> If a
>>>>>>> simulation differs from its original, it's not a simulation; it's 
>>>>>>> just a
>>>>>>> random program.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> When I ask what your C programming skill level is, this *is not* a
>>>>>>>> rhetorical question.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The question has nothing to do with C programming.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> typedef void (*ptr)(); // pointer to void function
>>>>>> int H(ptr P, ptr I);
>>>>>>
>>>>>> int D(int (*x)())
>>>>>> {
>>>>>>    int Halt_Status = H(x, x);
>>>>>>    if (Halt_Status)
>>>>>>      HERE: goto HERE;
>>>>>>    return Halt_Status;
>>>>>> }
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Unless I make every single detail 100% explicit false
>>>>>> assumptions always slip though the cracks. The ONLY way
>>>>>> to make EVERY SINGLE DETAIL 100% EXPLICIT is the x86
>>>>>> programming language.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There cannot possibly be any H that correctly emulates
>>>>>> the x86 machine code of D according to the semantics
>>>>>> of the x86 programming language such that the emulated
>>>>>> D ever reaches its own emulated final state at machine
>>>>>> address [00001f58].
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Which is just a strawman, as the requirement on H is NOT to answer 
>>>>> about "D correctly simulated by H" but about "the program 
>>>>> represented by the input directly executed", or equivalently, 
>>>>> simulated by an actual UTM, which is a simulator that NEVER stops 
>>>>> until it reaches a final state.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This is simply over-your-head.
>>>> I am very glad of that because the alternative would
>>>> possibly condemn your soul to Hell.
>>>
>>> Whats over my head? That the definition of a Halt Decider beihg that 
>>> it decides on the behavior of the program represented by the input 
>>> halting when run?
>>>
>>
>> void DDD()
>> {
>>    H0(DDD);
>> }
>>
>> int main()
>> {
>>    H0(DDD);
>> }
>>
>> That the machine language finite string input DD0
>> to any simulating halt decider HH0(DD0) cannot
>> possibly even ask about the behavior of DD0().
>>
> 
> Because it doesn't NEED to.
> 

I am happy that I found out you are not a liar.
You just don't understand these thing very well.

If a decider is being asked if N > 5?
and the programmer expects the answer to a different question
then the programmer is incorrect.

If the programmer expects H0(DDD) to report on the
behavior of DDD(DDD), then the programmer is incorrect.

> By being called a "Halt Decider", HH0 DEFINES what question it is being 
> asked, the only question are the parameters of the question, which is 
> What is the Program and input to decide on.
> 

H0(DDD) does correctly report on the behavior that its
input specifies and does not report on the behavior that
its input does not specify.

> You are just showing you are absoluting IGNORANT of what you talk about, 
> and have been just LYING about it for years.
> 

No the whole actual issue is that you have always been somewhat
more clueless than I ever expected.

That an input finite string of machine code must be mapped to
the behavior that it specifies through a sequence of finite
string transformation rules according to the semantics of the
x86 language is totally over your head.

Mapping finite strings to behavior is not looking up how
to get to Florida in Google maps.

> I'm sorry, but I think your "license to do logic" has been revoked, and 
> you are being punished for attempted murder on logic.

When you don't have a slight clue about what I said you try
to get away with masking your own ignorance with rhetoric.
*That surely works on dumb bunnies and other clueless wonders*

-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer