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From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory,sci.logic
Subject: Re: Simulating termination analyzers by dummies --- What does halting
 mean?
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2024 08:31:24 -0500
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On 6/19/2024 4:08 AM, joes wrote:
> Am Tue, 18 Jun 2024 21:51:56 -0500 schrieb olcott:
>> On 6/18/2024 9:41 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>> On 6/18/24 10:30 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>> On 6/18/2024 9:16 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>> On 6/18/24 1:25 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>> On 6/18/2024 12:06 PM, joes wrote:
> 
>>>> When such a UTM has been adapted to only simulate the first ten states
>>>> of its input TMD, then every simulated TMD with more than ten states
>>>> did not terminate normally.
> 
>>> Terminating is a property of the actual machine, and not a simulation
>>> of it.
> This.
>> Thus according to your faulty reasoning when the source-code of a C
>> program is simulated by interpreter this is mere nonsense gibberish
>> having nothing to do what the behavior that this source-code specifies.

> YOUR partial decider makes everything halt, even that which doesn't.
> So yes, it can't simulate infinite loops.
> 

My partial decider makes everything stop running this is not
at all the same as halting. Novices get very confused about this.

>>> You could say the SIMULATION didn't terminate normally, but you can't
>>> say the machine didn't or even the Turing Machine Description, as you
>>> could give that exact same TMD to a real UTM and find out the actual
>>> behaviof or the input.
>> Sure you can otherwise interpreters of source-code would be a bogus
>> concept.

> When I write an infinite loop, I want it to be interpreted as an
> infinite loop. Your H0 is bogus.
> 

void Infinite_Loop()
{
   HERE: goto HERE;
}

int main()
{
  Output("Input_Halts = ", H0(Infinite_Loop));
}

_Infinite_Loop()
[00002092] 55         push ebp
[00002093] 8bec       mov ebp,esp
[00002095] ebfe       jmp 00002095
[00002097] 5d         pop ebp
[00002098] c3         ret
Size in bytes:(0007) [00002098]

H0: Begin Simulation   Execution Trace Stored at:11376f
Address_of_H0:1aa2
[00002092][0011375f][00113763] 55         push ebp
[00002093][0011375f][00113763] 8bec       mov ebp,esp
[00002095][0011375f][00113763] ebfe       jmp 00002095
[00002095][0011375f][00113763] ebfe       jmp 00002095
H0: Infinite Loop Detected Simulation Stopped

>>> You just have lost track of the defintions of what is REALITY (the
>>> actual behavior of the machine) and what is just imagination.
>> Not I but you.

> The map is not the territory. The simulation is not the machine.
> 

(a) If the correct simulation of the x86 machine language of
the function does not prove the actual behavior that this
finite string specifies then source-code interpreters
are a bogus concept.

(b) source-code interpreters are NOT a bogus concept.

>>>> Every C programmer that knows what an x86 emulator is knows that when
>>>> H0 emulates the machine language of Infinite_Loop, Infinite_Recursion,
>>>> and DDD that it must abort these emulations so that itself can
>>>> terminate normally.
>>> Which doesn't mean the program DDD needs to be abort to have it halt.
>> The verified that that it does need to be aborted contradicts your
>> nonsense to the contrary.

> [The verification that it ... ?]
> If H0 halts, so does DDD (which only calls it).
> 
My partial decider makes everything stop running this is not
at all the same as halting. Novices get very confused about this.

-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer