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From: moviePig <nobody@nowhere.com>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv
Subject: Re: 5th Circuit Strikes Down Bump Stock Ban
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2024 11:42:01 -0400
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On 6/19/2024 11:25 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
> In article <s6077jpsl679hmse4jdbsf9eg38a9pf6qt@4ax.com>,
>   shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
> 
>> On Wed, 19 Jun 2024 16:28:26 -0700, BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>>
>>> In article <v4vh5f$258cf$2@dont-email.me>,
>>> moviePig <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 6/19/2024 3:13 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>>>> In article <v4v8jq$23o16$1@dont-email.me>,
>>>>>    moviePig <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 6/18/2024 10:38 PM, BTR1701 wrote:
>>>>>>> In article <v4tfnl$1ons5$2@dont-email.me>,
>>>>>>>     moviePig <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> And how does using a bump stock differ from a fully automatic
>>>>>>>>>>>> machine gun?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> With a bump stock, for every round fired, a separate trigger pull
>>>>>>>>>>> occurs.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> With a machine gun, one one trigger pull is required to fire
>>>>>>>>>>> multiple rounds.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Also, the rate of fire of a bump stock-equipped rifle is
>>>>>>>>>>> significantly slower than a rifle firing on full-auto.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> So, this 15-sec. video is a lie?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brrecvXhRVc
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I don't know what you're talking about. You can clearly see the
>>>>>>>>> bump device using the recoil (and Newton's Third Law) to reset the
>>>>>>>>> trigger after every round.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What I'm seeing is a NOT "significantly slower" rate of fire.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The bump device I used produce a fast rate of fire but not as fast as
>>>>>>> full-auto rifle. Perhaps this is a different model that works more
>>>>>>> efficiently.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regardless, the law passed by Congress did not differentiate "machine
>>>>>>> gun" from other guns by how fast it shoots, so the rate of fire is
>>>>>>> actually irrelevant to the issue.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, we've already established that a determined judiciary can do an
>>>>>> end-run around even the clearest legislative intent.
>>>>>
>>>>> They didn't end-run anything. They only reiterated-- since our
>>>>> government seems to have lost its way and needs a reminder-- that
>>>>> Congress is the only body granted the authority by the Constitution
>>>>> to legislate in this country, not administrative agencies like
>>>>> BATF, and if Congress wants to change the definition of "machine
>>>>> gun" to incorporate bump stocks into it, it can do so at any time.
>>>>> However, BATF has no authority to do it for them.
>>>>
>>>> Machine gun:
>>>>
>>>>      "...any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily
>>>> restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual
>>>> reloading, by a single function of the trigger."
>>>>
>>>> Now, tell me again how either gun in my video doesn't qualify...
>>>
>>> Because with the bump stock, it's only firing one shot per pull of the
>>> trigger. The trigger is just being pulled repeatedly really fast as a
>>> result of rebounding recoil caused by the bump stock. The bumper rocks
>>> the rifle back and forth against the shooter's trigger finger, causing a
>>> separate trigger pull each time. The statute you quoted above clearly
>>> says "by a SINGLE function of the trigger". If you shoot 100 rounds with
>>> a bump stock, you've got 100 functions of the trigger, not a single
>>> function of the trigger.
>>
>> Yes, you are definitely technically correct. (The best kind.) That
>> said you can see why people consider the bump stock to be the
>> equivalent of turning a weapon into an equal to a machine gun. It
>> isn't a machine gun but it ends throwing lead down field much like
>> one.
> 
> I've seen people who can pull a trigger all on their own pretty damn
> fast-- certainly at a speed that most hoplophobes would consider
> "machine gun adjacent".
> 
> Should we make it illegal for a human to pull a trigger faster than a
> certain rate? Or force anyone who can do it accurately faster than a
> certain rate to register their finger with the BATF as a "machine gun"?
> 
>> I think eventually the law will be updated to include bump stocks
>> but who knows how long that will take. As no one who was involved in
>> writing the original  act likely foresaw the possibility of a bump
>> stock.

Did you look at the 15-sec. video I posted?  I submit that what you're 
seeing for *both* guns is a single function of the trigger *finger* -- 
i.e., "pull and hold until bodies reach a desired height".  If you mean 
to say that the bump trigger *vibrates* more noticeably than the auto, 
I'd bet that boutique bump-stocks can mitigate that inconvenience...