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From: Cryptoengineer <petertrei@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.fandom
Subject: Re: Readercon code of conduct
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2024 12:10:06 -0400
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On 6/20/2024 4:07 AM, D wrote:
> 
> 
> On Wed, 19 Jun 2024, Cryptoengineer wrote:
> 
>> On 6/5/2024 1:30 AM, D wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, 4 Jun 2024, Mike Van Pelt wrote:
>>>
>>>> In article <lbr238Fa73cU1@mid.individual.net>,
>>>> Bernard Peek  <bap@shrdlu.com> wrote:
>>>>> The measures were probably excessive for a disease with a
>>>>> mortality of 0.5% but would have been woefully inadequate if
>>>>> it had been 2.5% instead. We took months to impose pretty
>>>>> feeble restrictions. I would like to see response-times
>>>>> measured in hours.
>>>>
>>>> One of the big problems preventing early measures from being
>>>> taken was believing a word that came from the ChiCom regime.
>>>> The WHO basically parroted whatever they said about no
>>>> human-to-human transmission, etc., until it became impossible
>>>> to ignore.  The rest of the world needs to recognize that
>>>> totalitarian despots lie.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> True. With response time in hours, the world economy would collapse 
>>> multiple times given how many fake scares we would have.
>>>
>>> The best option would have been, like sweden, to issue some 
>>> recommendations to protect the old and do absolutely nothing.
>>>
>>> But boy was the international community angry with sweden for showing 
>>> that no lock downs were necessary and neither were masks. They 
>>> destroyed completely any credibility the rest of the worlds 
>>> politicians had! =)
>>
>> I see the numbers (source: worldmeters.info)
>> https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
>>
>> Sweden: 2.682 deaths per million
>> US      3,642
>>
>> But Sweden is hardly the best.
>>
>> France:  2,556 (fierce lockdown there)
>> Germany: 2,182 (ditto)
>> Ireland: 1,891
>> Norway:  1,024
>>
>> nor is the US the worst:
>> Bulgaria: 5,661
>> Hungary:  5,106
>>
>> Someday, there will be a thorough comparison of the various
>> strategies, what worked, what didn't.
>>
>> If lockdowns and masks didn't help, what did? Why was the
>> US so much worse than, say, Ireland? Why did Sweden have
>> double the death rate of Norway?
>>
>>
>> pt
> 
> Let's look at excess mortality, then we talk.

There's a venerable method of evading discussion
of a questionable Internet claim by refusing
discussion unless some form of evidence which is
thought difficult to obtain is first supplied.

I feel like that's the case here. Why is Covid death
rate not a valid metric? Why is excess deaths better?

At any rate, it's actually not difficult to obtain
excess death data, if your google-foo is adequate:

https://ourworldindata.org/excess-mortality-covid

On the graph, click 'Edit countries and regions',
and  you can compare countries against each other.

I've captured a chart for Norway and Sweden. It's
here: https://imgur.com/P9rXFWc

Sweden has two huge peaks of excess deaths, compared
to Norway, in the early  part of the pandemic. Norway
has one in late 2021. Otherwise they track fairly
closely.

So again: What was Norway doing different than Sweden
that saved so many lives?

Curiously, at the end of data (Dec 2023), Sweden
has a lot more excess deaths than the US.

pt