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From: Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: British (european?) kitchen counter electric outlets
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2024 12:48:22 -0700
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On 6/19/2024 6:33 PM, KevinJ93 wrote:
>> But, how do you *access* the wire to do so?  Possibly you can gain access
>> INSIDE a box.  But, now you have to get your "stub" wire out of the box
>> and into the "cavity" and, eventually, over to its destination.
>>
>> Here, we can open walls with a "plunge saw" (drywall saw) -- to any level
>> of exposure deemed necessary.  Then, slip a new piece of drywall (cut to
>> that size/shape) in its place and patch.
> 
>  From the back of the box you can drill into the cavity,

So, the "boxes" aren't deep enough to penetrate the inner wall?
I.e., the sides of a Jbox intended for use in drywall will have
places ("knockouts") that are known to be "behind" the drywall
(inside the wall) for cables to enter/exit the box.  Cable clamps
can be fitted to these points -- if the box doesn't already include
internal clamps.  The depth of a box can be chosen to maximize
internal working volume ("volume units" required for a particular
number of conductors, devices, clamps, etc. related to maximum wire
size used in the box -- a given number of volume units defined
by those criteria will necessitate a larger box if you move to
a larger wire size)

> or carve out a trench 
> in the surface of the inner wall deep enough to run the cable to the next box 
> if the location is close. Plaster over the trench (and cable) when finished. I 
> assume that is still allowed, it was many years ago that I did that.

That would have to be armored, here, if within ~1.5" of the finished surface
of the wall (to prevent a nail from penetrating it).

> In the house I had in England the inner wall was made of breeze block (cinder 
> block) that was soft enough to gouge with a finger nail. Making a channel in it 
> was very easy with a masonry chisel. It is more difficult if you have to do it 
> in brick, stone or concrete.

We have different densities of "block walls", here.  For example, the block
wall that supports the 20 ft span for the garage is almost impossible to
drill (there are *stones* in the concrete mix used to make them which eat
drill bits)

> Some houses use pre-cast concrete lintels over windows and doors. The concrete 
> is those can be extremely tough and very difficult to drill into or chisel out.

AFAICT, these (wood or steel, here) can't be drilled as that would  compromise
their integrity.  For example, the roof load for much of this house is carried
by a few 4x12" (16?) beams.  The ceiling joists are intentionally hung off
these so that their tops (where the roof attaches) are above the beam.  This
allows cables to cross the beam without penetrating it.