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Path: ...!feed.opticnetworks.net!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> Newsgroups: comp.theory,sci.logic Subject: Re: 195 page execution trace of DDD correctly simulated by HH0 ---Boilerplate Reply Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2024 12:22:04 -0500 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 106 Message-ID: <v54crs$38n2k$4@dont-email.me> References: <v4vrfg$2793f$1@dont-email.me> <v50o2t$2fh98$2@dont-email.me> <v51dc8$2jmrd$1@dont-email.me> <v53b0s$324b4$1@dont-email.me> <v53tjm$35vak$1@dont-email.me> <v5415i$lkkc$1@i2pn2.org> <v543k2$376u3$1@dont-email.me> <v5460r$lkkc$3@i2pn2.org> <v54br6$38n2k$2@dont-email.me> <v54c3r$lkkc$5@i2pn2.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2024 19:22:05 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="d3e479354f6c59f79625e93d556f5bfb"; logging-data="3431508"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+Lo0/HuiO/acv4/QoZA/6E" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cancel-Lock: sha1:U70At5rkWPYSCvW4R1wAMcUt6AM= Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: <v54c3r$lkkc$5@i2pn2.org> Bytes: 5721 On 6/21/2024 12:09 PM, Richard Damon wrote: > On 6/21/24 1:04 PM, olcott wrote: >> On 6/21/2024 10:25 AM, Richard Damon wrote: >>> On 6/21/24 10:44 AM, olcott wrote: >>>> On 6/21/2024 9:02 AM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>> On 6/21/24 9:01 AM, olcott wrote: >>>>>> On 6/21/2024 2:44 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote: >>>>>>> Op 20.jun.2024 om 16:12 schreef olcott: >>>>>>>> On 6/20/2024 3:09 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote: >>>>>>>>> Op 20.jun.2024 om 02:00 schreef olcott: >>>>>>>>>> This shows all of the steps of HH0 simulating DDD >>>>>>>>>> calling a simulated HH0 simulating DDD >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> https://liarparadox.org/HH0_(DDD)_Full_Trace.pdf >>>>>>>>>> *Some of the key instructions are color coded* >>>>>>>>>> GREEN---DebugStep Address >>>>>>>>>> RED-----HH Address >>>>>>>>>> YELLOW--All of the DDD instructions >>>>>>>>>> CYAN----Return from DebugStep to Decide_Halting_HH >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _DDD() >>>>>>>>>> [000020a2] 55 push ebp ; housekeeping >>>>>>>>>> [000020a3] 8bec mov ebp,esp ; housekeeping >>>>>>>>>> [000020a5] 68a2200000 push 000020a2 ; push DDD >>>>>>>>>> [000020aa] e8f3f9ffff call 00001aa2 ; call H0 >>>>>>>>>> [000020af] 83c404 add esp,+04 ; housekeeping >>>>>>>>>> [000020b2] 5d pop ebp ; housekeeping >>>>>>>>>> [000020b3] c3 ret ; never gets here >>>>>>>>>> Size in bytes:(0018) [000020b3] >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Exactly which step of DDD emulated by H0 was emulated >>>>>>>>>> incorrectly such that this emulation would be complete? >>>>>>>>>> AKA DDD emulated by H0 reaches machine address [000020b3] >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If the simulation of a program with a loop of 5 iterations is >>>>>>>>> aborted after 3 iterations, all instructions are correctly >>>>>>>>> simulated. Nevertheless, it is an incorrect simulation, because >>>>>>>>> it should simulate up to the final state of the program. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It would be helpful if you answer the actual question being asked >>>>>>>> right here and thus not answer some other question that was asked >>>>>>>> somewhere else. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If you do not understand that I answered the question why the >>>>>>> simulation is incorrect, it is hopeless. The question which >>>>>>> instruction is incorrect is not the right question. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> If you say that something is incorrect and can't be specific >>>>>> then your rebuttal is pure bluster with no actual basis. >>>>>> >>>>>> You need to show every single freaking step of exactly >>>>>> DDD correctly emulated by HH0 reaches past its own >>>>>> machine address [0000209b] or all you have is BULLSHIT! >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Which proves your duplicity, since no one is claiming that. >>>>> >>>> >>>> If you claim that I have made a mistake and cannot point >>>> to the exact details of this mistake then everyone will >>>> know that you are lying about there being any actual mistake. >>> >>> Sure >>> >>> First, NO ONE has said that *H* (or what every you are calling your >>> decider today) can correct simulate the input to a final state. >>> >> >> Then you understand that H(D,D) is not even being >> asked the question: Does D(D) halt? >> > > Of course it is, at least if it is claimed to be a Halt Decider. > When there is no mapping from the finite string x86 machine language input to H(D,D) to the behavior of D(D) then H(D,D) IS NOT being asked about the behavior of D(D). *That this is simply over-your-head does not make me wrong* Not even being asked about the behavior of D(D) is not the same situation as: the logical impossibility of specifying a halt decider H that correctly reports the halt status of input D that is defined to do the opposite of whatever value that H reports. Of course this is impossible. > Nothing says that the decider has to actually be ABLE to answer the > question, only that the answer exists. Uncomputable problems just can't > be solved with a computation. > > You just refuse to accept the only definition of that which is valid, > because you logic can't handle it (and thus is wrong for the field). -- Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer