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From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory,sci.logic
Subject: Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) ---
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Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2024 13:18:19 -0500
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On 6/21/2024 12:52 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
> On 6/21/24 1:38 PM, olcott wrote:
>> On 6/21/2024 12:26 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>> On 6/21/24 1:16 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>> On 6/21/2024 12:06 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>> On 6/21/24 12:56 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>> On 6/21/2024 9:36 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>> On 6/21/24 12:01 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _DDD()
>>>>>> [00002093] 55               push ebp
>>>>>> [00002094] 8bec             mov ebp,esp
>>>>>> [00002096] 6893200000       push 00002093 ; push DDD
>>>>>> [0000209b] e853f4ffff       call 000014f3 ; call HH0
>>>>>> [000020a0] 83c404           add esp,+04
>>>>>> [000020a3] 5d               pop ebp
>>>>>> [000020a4] c3               ret
>>>>>> Size in bytes:(0018) [000020a4]
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That is the only definitive way to determine the
>>>>>>>> actual behavior that the finite string specifies.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It is the only was to COMPUTE the actual behavior, but to 
>>>>>>> DETERMINE it doesn't need that.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ah so you expect that HH0 must use its intuition to
>>>>>> determine that behavior that it is supposed to report on.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Nope, if it exists, it needs to compute the answer. But, it doesn't 
>>>>> need to exist as a correct decider for halting.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If H(D,D) cannot apply finite string transformation rules
>>>> to its input finite string of x86 machine language of D to
>>>> derive the behavior of D(D) then H cannot even be asked
>>>> the question: Does D(D) halt?
>>>
>>> You are just showing your STUPDIITY and IGNRNCE of the topic.
>>>
>>> There is NOTHING about the definition of a quesiton of a mapping that 
>>> we can ask a decider to try to compute that says the mapping must be 
>>> computable.
>>>
>> You are the one being stupid here, yet you can't help it.
>>
>> That you don't understand the details of how deciders
>> are asked questions is significant ignorance on your part.
> 
> Deciders are asked questions by the problem they are desi
> 
>>
>> You keep implicitly presuming the deciders can read computer
>> science textbooks.
> 
> And you keep on thinking that programs write themselves.
> 
> The PROGRAMMER of the decider needs to understand the problem, and then 
> design the program to give the right answer.

Yet the program must compute the mapping from the
input to the behavior that the program is intended
to report on or it cannot even be asked the question.

This is a very difficult brand new issue that no one has
ever noticed before because they consistently rejected
the notion of a simulating halt decider out-of-hand without
any review.

-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer