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From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory,sci.logic
Subject: Re: H(D,D) cannot even be asked about the behavior of D(D) ---
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Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2024 14:19:34 -0500
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On 6/21/2024 2:05 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
> On 6/21/24 2:53 PM, olcott wrote:
>> On 6/21/2024 1:42 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>> On 6/21/24 2:18 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>> On 6/21/2024 12:52 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>> On 6/21/24 1:38 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>> On 6/21/2024 12:26 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>> On 6/21/24 1:16 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 6/21/2024 12:06 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 6/21/24 12:56 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 6/21/2024 9:36 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/21/24 12:01 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _DDD()
>>>>>>>>>> [00002093] 55               push ebp
>>>>>>>>>> [00002094] 8bec             mov ebp,esp
>>>>>>>>>> [00002096] 6893200000       push 00002093 ; push DDD
>>>>>>>>>> [0000209b] e853f4ffff       call 000014f3 ; call HH0
>>>>>>>>>> [000020a0] 83c404           add esp,+04
>>>>>>>>>> [000020a3] 5d               pop ebp
>>>>>>>>>> [000020a4] c3               ret
>>>>>>>>>> Size in bytes:(0018) [000020a4]
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> That is the only definitive way to determine the
>>>>>>>>>>>> actual behavior that the finite string specifies.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It is the only was to COMPUTE the actual behavior, but to 
>>>>>>>>>>> DETERMINE it doesn't need that.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Ah so you expect that HH0 must use its intuition to
>>>>>>>>>> determine that behavior that it is supposed to report on.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Nope, if it exists, it needs to compute the answer. But, it 
>>>>>>>>> doesn't need to exist as a correct decider for halting.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If H(D,D) cannot apply finite string transformation rules
>>>>>>>> to its input finite string of x86 machine language of D to
>>>>>>>> derive the behavior of D(D) then H cannot even be asked
>>>>>>>> the question: Does D(D) halt?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You are just showing your STUPDIITY and IGNRNCE of the topic.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There is NOTHING about the definition of a quesiton of a mapping 
>>>>>>> that we can ask a decider to try to compute that says the mapping 
>>>>>>> must be computable.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> You are the one being stupid here, yet you can't help it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That you don't understand the details of how deciders
>>>>>> are asked questions is significant ignorance on your part.
>>>>>
>>>>> Deciders are asked questions by the problem they are desi
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You keep implicitly presuming the deciders can read computer
>>>>>> science textbooks.
>>>>>
>>>>> And you keep on thinking that programs write themselves.
>>>>>
>>>>> The PROGRAMMER of the decider needs to understand the problem, and 
>>>>> then design the program to give the right answer.
>>>>
>>>> Yet the program must compute the mapping from the
>>>> input to the behavior that the program is intended
>>>> to report on or it cannot even be asked the question.
>>>
>>> Sounds about right for you logic, the program can't be wrong, as it 
>>> defines the question that it is answering.
>>>
>>> That isn't how it works, and you are just shown to be a stupid lying 
>>> idiot.
>>>
>>
>> Using ad hominen as a basis for rebuttal is objectively
>> about as stupid as one gets.
> 
> Which shows how little you understand logic.
> 
> MY statement was not an ad hominem, as it pointed out that you were 
> wrong, and why, and then pointed out that you were a stupid lying idiot 
> because you keep on repeating the exact same error.
> 
> YOUR statement on the other hand IS a ad hominem because the only reason 
> you point out for me being wrong was that I was being stupid.
> 
> THAT is not a valid argument, shown you TO BE STUPID.
> 
>>
>> If I was even incorrect you could show the exact
>> step of my mistake and thus have something more
>> that pure bluster.
> 
> Which I did. The program is wrong because it answered the wrong 
> question. The question the program NEEDS to answer to be correct, is the 
> question defined by the problem that the program was claimed to be 
> solving, which in this case, is the halting problem, or you are just 
> being a liar.
> 
int sum(int x, int y){ return x + y; }
When this program is asked: sum(3,4) this maps to 7.
When this program is asked: sum(5,6) this DOES NOT map to 7.

When H is asked H(D,D) this maps to D correctly simulated by H.
When H is asked H(D,D) this DOES NOT map to behavior that halts.


-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer