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From: Andrew <andrew@spam.net>
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
Subject: Re: Why do so many people confuse Google's Firebase (cloud API) with Google Services Google Firebase App Indexing (search results)?
Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2024 07:18:32 -0000 (UTC)
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Arno Welzel wrote on Sun, 23 Jun 2024 02:58:16 +0200 :

> Andrew, 2024-06-22 20:48:
> 
>> Why do so many people (including myself, at first) confuse Google's
>> Firebase (cloud API) with Google Services Google Firebase App Indexing
>> (search results)?
>> 
>> Firebase (cloud related):
>>  <https://firebase.google.com/firebase-and-gcp>
>>  "Firebase and Google Cloud share three products: Cloud Firestore, 
>>   Cloud Functions, and Cloud Storage. These are the same products
>>   that exist in Google Cloud, simply exposed for client-side 
>>   developers via Firebase. You can access the same data from the 
>>   server SDKs (Google Cloud) and the client SDKs (Firebase), 
>>   so your frontend and backend teams can work in concert."
> 
> Firebase App Indexing was part of Firebase and not a separate product:
> <https://firebase.google.com/docs/app-indexing?hl=en>

The question I asked is a very difficult question to answer.

Hence... thank you for hazarding an answer as when there is confusion, none
of us can communicate on the same level until we're all at a similar level
of knowledge, which, for Firebase, will almost never be able to happen
here.

Even so, it's good information that the probable reason for the Firebase
terminology being used by Google marketing to refer to what appears to be
two completely different capabilities, may very well be that they were, at
one point in time, part of the same suite of tools in the past.

This apparently uncomfortable truth is one reason I said that anyone (me
included) who discusses "Firebase" without pinning down *which* Firebase
they're discussing, will just end up confusing everyone, me included.

> Also note, quote:
> "Firebase App Indexing is no longer the recommended way of indexing
> content for display as suggested results in Google Search App. This page
> points to other useful Google developer products."

I was aware that the Firebase App Indexing (search) feature was deprecated,
but my own Samsung Galaxy A32-5G phone shows it's definitely in use today.

Even so, it's good to know that "Android App Links are the recommended way
of linking users directly from search results, websites and other apps to
specific content within your app"
<https://developer.android.com/training/app-links>

>> In addition, while the extremely private information stored on your device
>> for Firebase App Indexing isn't directly uploaded to the Internet, Google
>> clearly says they will (and do) upload statistics which we have no idea
>> what they are (nor how frequently they're uploaded, nor to whom) - so
>> another question is what happens to that extremely private data that is
>> stored in the Firebase App Index on the cellphone (other than it's included
>> in search results, presumably those run on the phone's data itself).
> 
> If you don't trust Google, don't use their products!

That's terrible advice. For a whole bunch of reasons. Don't get me wrong
though, as I know what you're saying (i.e., you're saying Google is evil).

However, one reason it's terrible advice is we're just trying to UNDERSTAND
what's going on; and to say don't use any product if you want to understand
how it works, is just about the worst advice possible, IMHO.

However, another more pragmatic reason that's terrible advice is there are
only two practical choices for cellphones: Android & iOS.

Given we're not an iOS group (for different reasons), we are all using
Android. Now, you could be talking about rooting & using AOSP... but... 

Given my Samsung Galaxy A32-5G baseband is unrootable, I'm forced to use
some version of Android so I'm stuck using Google products de jure.

Even so, I do delete most Google packages, but I keep Google Maps and
Google Play Services for reasons that are related to functionality; & both
of those are still making full use of the Firebase App Indexing (AFAIK).

Anyway, the point is saying if you want to understand a Google product,
don't use it - is terrible advice - which we can forget & move forward.
 
>> I barely know what Firebase (cloud) and Firebase App Indexing (search) do;
>> but it's really sad if I know it better than anyone else - hence - I'm
>> asking everyone else to pitch in so that we can tell, at a glance, which
>> apps use Firebase App Indexing so that we can avoid them, on sight.
> 
> Firebase in general is a framework by Google to build apps which use
> additional services for authentication, communication and storage:
> <https://firebase.google.com/docs/projects/learn-more?hl=en>
> 
> For developers this makes a lot a things easier, since you can use the
> Firebase infrastructure instead of implementing
> client-server-communication etc. on your own.

Thank you for repeating what Google claims Firebase is, where I suspect the
utter vagaries in that description are intentional by Google so that they
can shove anything they want into Firebase - but then I have to wonder how
does Firebase differ from GSF (Google Services Framework) and how does
Firebase differ from GMS (Google Mobile Services) which, again, many
developers link into their apps.

Notice all three packages can be described under the exact words that are
used above for Firebase - which tells me those words are effectively
meaningless in that they say nothing of any technical value to us.

> But again: if you don't trust Google, don't use their products!

Please stop saying that if you want to understand how a product works, the
only way is to not use that product. It's a nonsensical meaningless
platitude that holds not only no value - but which implies that you feel it
is impossible to understand how any Google product actually works.

While it's clear that few here understand what Firebase is (least of all
me), it's only slightly more clear how GSM and GSF differ, I think.
 *What is the difference between Google Service Framework(GSF)*
 *And Google Mobile Service(GMS)?*
 <https://stackoverflow.com/questions/37337448/what-is-the-difference-between-google-service-frameworkgsfgoogle-mobile-servi>

What's missing of course, is the answer to how these differ:
a. Firebase (I can't find a package with that name on my Android)
b. GSF (Google Services Framework) <com.google.android.gsf>
c. GMS (Google Mobile Services) <com.google.android.gms>