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From: Andrew <andrew@spam.net>
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
Subject: Re: Why do so many people confuse Google's Firebase (cloud API) with Google Services Google Firebase App Indexing (search results)?
Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2024 17:41:30 -0000 (UTC)
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Arno Welzel wrote on Sun, 23 Jun 2024 16:43:35 +0200 :

>> Particularly when I'm simply trying to UNDERSTAND how it works.
> 
> Well - I tried to explain that. But it seems you believe "Firebase App
> Indexing" is "bad" and "Firebase" is also "bad" and you just want to get
> rid of it or at least avoid it. So the only logical answer is then not
> to use such devices.

This is a purely emotional response... 

I feel for you Arno, as I am aware that you are a developer yourself, with
a published app, and that you are trying to help us, who have never
published any app on the Google Play Store.

The best some of us have done (me included) is follow a tutorial on the net
to build and modify our own personal apps using Android Stuido (which I've
done for about a dozen apps which I wrote up long ago on this newsgroup).

But following a tutorial and making minor edits is different than
publisheing a bona fide app on the Google Play Store, which you've done.

So you deserve respect for your abilities (as I do mine, which are lesser).

I don't remember who suggested HeliBoard, but if it was you, then I
appreciate that suggestion, as I briefly compared it to OpenBoard and found
them to be roughly equivalent (I only tested briefly the top-level usage).

In that HeliBoard discussion, I was pained to see you forced to respond to
people who merely said that they were so afraid of Google that anything
HeliBoard did with respect to permissions was anathema - which I disagreed
with but you valiantly struggled to help that person, to your credit.

Since I read every discussion on this newsgroup since the dawn of time,
I've learned a lot about apps from suggestions, so I was very happy to see
you suggest PMX, for example, to look at permissions. As you're likely
aware, I tested PMX and only ran into one problem - but it is a good app.

I pretty much test *every* free app ever suggested on this newsgroup, mind
you, so I probably know more about apps than most people here do. In
addition, I uninstall every package that I can uninstall (e.g., YouTube,
Google GMail, T-Mobile Diagnostics, etc.) and at the same time I do not
have any accounts on the device (not Google, not Samsung, not Amazon, and
certainly not from any app like a weather app or a pedometer app or a
photo-identification app, etc., that asks me to create a login to use it).

I practice privacy in ways that probably nobody here even understands, such
as using Developer options to randomize every AP connection MAC (which is
not the default, despite people thinking it is) and to hide the SSID
broadcast (which is for privacy, not security - despite people thinking it
is) and I don't put contacts into the default sqlite database (which I
doubt anyone here has any inkling how that improves the privacy of everyone
that I interact with), and I have one-tap shorcuts to all the Google
settings on Android that need to be reset every time I clear the cache
(which likely nobody but me knows all of them, they're so vast), etc.

My point is I feel for you when you were defending HeliBoard, where I am
not worried about HeliBoard's permissions (or those of OpenBoard), but I
would like to learn more about what Firebase App Indexing is doing on my
phone, because even as it has been deprecated by Google, even Google is
still using it (Android 13, Galaxy A32-5G) as are *many* other companies
(Windy, Google TV, YouTube, GasBuddy, etc.).

Unfortunately, developers are seduced by the Adam's apple that Google
offers them, which contains at least three serpents, as listed below.

1. GSF (Google Services Framework) <com.google.android.gsf> 
2. GMS (Google Mobile Services) <com.google.android.gms>
3. Google Firebase & Google Services Firebase App Indexing

What would make this thread useful would be a good summary of the
difference be, where I take an amateurish stab at it below.

1. GSF => APIs for apps to link into Google Backup, Play Store Services,  
          Contacts Sync, and Account Management (plus location services
          I think, which is why so many apps now require "precise location"
          even though they have no need for it - because Google made the 
          option for location services w/o Wi-Fi removed from the API!)
2. GMS => APIs for Gmail, Chrome, Google+, Google Maps & Youtube.
3. Firebase => APIs for Cloud stuff + completely separate search stuff

-- 
 *What is the difference between Google Service Framework(GSF)*
 *And Google Mobile Service(GMS)?*
<https://stackoverflow.com/questions/37337448/what-is-the-difference-between-google-service-frameworkgsfgoogle-mobile-servi>

<https://firebase.google.com/firebase-and-gcp>

Firebase (cloud related):
 <https://firebase.google.com/firebase-and-gcp>
 "Firebase and Google Cloud share three products: Cloud Firestore, 
  Cloud Functions, and Cloud Storage. These are the same products
  that exist in Google Cloud, simply exposed for client-side 
  developers via Firebase. You can access the same data from the 
  server SDKs (Google Cloud) and the client SDKs (Firebase), 
  so your frontend and backend teams can work in concert."

Google Services Firebase App Indexing (search related):

<https://medium.com/android-news/firebase-app-indexing-for-personal-content-getting-personal-content-into-search-c52bfe45b3ac>
   "A note about privacy: The personal content index only exists
    on the user's device. None of the user's personal content is 
    uploaded to Google servers and it only remains on the device
    while the app is installed. However, aggregated statistics
    about apps' usage of App Indexing and other system health 
    information may be uploaded to Google servers."

Notice that the words "ON THE DEVICE" is supposed to make you feel
safer; however the caveat is that Google samples statistics frequently
(about once or twice a month in my experience) of this extremely detailed
private data (e.g., every map location you ever searched for and every
contact you've ever contacted and every app you've ever opened up, etc.)
means, as far as I can tell, it doesn't matter one bit if an application
has no Internet access... because Google does.

The main unanswered question is how to tell if any given app has 
Google Services Firebase App Indexing incorporated into it, so that we know
to delete those apps, unless they're essential apps.

An example is I deleted Windy because it used Firebase App Indexing:
 <https://i.postimg.cc/qR8zr72r/appindex01.jpg>

And I deleted googlequicksearch, Google TV, T-Mobile and YouTube because
they used Google Services Firebase App Indexing (replacing them with apps
that did not use Google Services Firebase App Indexing such as NewPipe).
 <https://i.postimg.cc/Fs8GDLfX/firebase01.jpg>

The problem with Google Services Firebase App Indexing databases (which you
can only see if you enable Developer options) is they contain extremely
personal information about your activities, such as what you use GasBuddy
for (which is why I deleted Gas Buddy even as it's a useful app otherwise).
 <https://i.postimg.cc/nhCCVxmB/mapsloctrack03.jpg>