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From: Ross Clark <benlizro@ihug.co.nz>
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Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re:_Kommen_drei_Logiker_in_eine_Bar._Der_Kellner_fragt:_?=
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Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2024 10:59:55 +1200
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On 24/06/2024 1:56 a.m., jerryfriedman wrote:
> Antonio Marques wrote:
> 
>> Phil Carmody <pc+usenet@asdf.org> wrote:
>>> Ruud Harmsen <rh@rudhar.com> writes:
>>>> Sat, 22 Jun 2024 19:29:14 +0300: Phil Carmody <pc+usenet@asdf.org>
>>>> scribeva:
>>>>
>>>>> Ruud Harmsen <rh@rudhar.com> writes:
>>>>>> Mon, 17 Jun 2024 11:18:24 -0700: HenHanna <HenHanna@devnull.tb>
>>>>>> scribeva:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Kommen drei Logiker in eine Bar. Der Kellner fragt: "Na, was darfs
>>>>>>> sein,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> die Herren? Drei Bier?" Sagt der erste Logiker "Ich weiß nicht", 
>>>>>>> der zweite auch "Ich weiß nicht" und der Dritte sagt "Ja"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ------ is this funny?   i don't really get it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 0 | 0 | 1 = 1, in Boolean logic.
>>>>>
>>>>> True but irrelevant.
>>>>>
>>>>> ~0 & ~0 & 1 = 1 is the boolean logic that applies.
>>>>
>>>> What do you mean by ~? Not? How is don't know a not.
>>>
>>> ~ is indeed not.
>>>
>>> Saying "don't know" is the *exclusion* of "no" as a possible state,
>>> because if "no" was this guy's intention he would have correctly
>>> answered "no" rather than "don't know".
> 
>> ....except that 'don't know' usually means 'still deciding'.
> 
> That misdirection is part of the puzzle (which I didn't get the first
> time
> I saw it).  But they're logicians, which is a clue that ordinary
> interpretation doesn't work.
> 
> I think this one can be worked out if it's presented as a puzzle,
> ending "How did he know?"  In that case "I don't know" can't
> mean "I'm still deciding."  It has to mean "I know what I want, but
> I don't know what the others want."  For the third logician to
> answer confidently, he has to be able to assume that the other
> two know what they want, but three people walking into a bar
> together might know each other that well.

Thank you, Jerry. This brings it within reach of my groping mind at 
last. So...the whole sequence has to be understood as individual answers 
to the question addressed to the group: Do you want three beers?
If either of the first two had _not_ wanted a beer, he would have been 
able (in fact required) to say "no" to the group question, even without 
knowing what the other two wanted. So "don't know" for the first two 
implies "I want a beer, but...". Once two such (individual, implicit) 
affirmatives have been given, the third guy knows the answer to the 
group question.

I agree, better puzzle than joke.