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From: Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: OT: Kids got an E-scooter?
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2024 13:18:57 +1000
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On 24/06/2024 5:51 am, wmartin wrote:
> On 6/23/24 09:56, Cursitor Doom wrote:
>> On Sun, 23 Jun 2024 11:25:21 +1000, Bill Sloman wrote:
>>
>>> On 23/06/2024 9:58 am, john larkin wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 22 Jun 2024 22:39:48 +0100, TTman <kraken.sankey@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote
>>>>> On 22/06/2024 18:22, Cursitor Doom wrote:
>>>>>> On Sat, 22 Jun 2024 09:12:04 -0700, john larkin wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sat, 22 Jun 2024 13:22:25 +0100, Cursitor Doom
>>>>>>> <cd@notformail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Get rid of it!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cxwwzd99r2do
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I doubt that there is any serious quality control on cheap
>>>>>>> batteries.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Kids are maiming and killing themselves on cheap unlicensed
>>>>>>> battery-powered scooters and such too.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Imagine maybe a million unused battery-powered toys gathering dust
>>>>>>> in garages and closets waiting to explode.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A frightening thought! Not so much batteries; more incendiary bombs.
>>>
>>> If you can describe it as a thought. More a deluded fantasy/
>>>>>>> https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33963903/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.amazon.com/Go-Bowen-Baja-1000W-Electric-Go-Kart/dp/
>>>>>> B00NOD6T4G
>>>>>>
>>>>> That's why we charged our RC lipos in a fireproof bag...
>>>>
>>>> If it ignites, it would burn through a steel lunchbox.
>>>
>>> Really? Do you have any evidence for that that claim?
>>>
>>> This is just more of the usual alarmist nonsense about lithium ion
>>> batteries. This should be the kind of forum where we discuss the design
>>> of lithium ion battery chargers and lithium ion battery condition
>>> monitors - which could, in principle be designed to discharge the
>>> battery if the internal temperature of the battery rose high  enough to
>>> suggest a risk of runaway self-discharge.
>>>
>>> Cursitor Doom and John Larkin are much too devoted to their alarmist
>>> fantasies to want to think  about that (always assuming that  they could
>>> if they wanted to).
>>
>> Perhaps you'd like to explain to the lady who's house burned to the 
>> ground and her similarly stricken neighbours that this is all just an "alarmist
>> fantasy" Bill.
> 
> Alarmist fantasy in action... 
> https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/2024/05/18/battery-fire-at-storage-facility-in-otay-mesa-keeps-reigniting/
> 
> also: (different incident) "On April 19, 2019, a fire captain, a fire 
> engineer and two career firefighters suffered serious injuries dealing 
> with a thermal runaway incident at a 2.16-megawatt battery facility in 
> Surprise, Arizona. According to a Underwriters Laboratories report on 
> the incident, When firefighters opened a door to the building, a 75-foot 
> jet of flame extended outward from the doorway. The fire captain was 
> blown over 70 feet against a chain-link fence surrounding the building. 
> The entire hazardous materials team lost consciousness from the blast. "
> 
> Not to be an alarmist, just be aware that even professionally managed 
> lithium batteries can do bad things. Don't keep them in your house...

"Professionally managed" just means that the people who are supposed to 
look after the facility are getting paid for it. Getting paid doesn't 
mean that you are doing it right.

If your lithium batteries are equipped with properly designed 
temperature monitors and appropriate battery management hardware, they 
won't burst into flame without generating some kind of alarm well in 
advance.

The safest option is to put them somewhere where they could burn out, 
but that is rarely practical.

Tesla power walls are expensive, but a separate outhouse for them would 
make them even more expensive.

-- 
Bill Sloman, Sydney


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