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Path: ...!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!news.szaf.org!nntp-feed.chiark.greenend.org.uk!ewrotcd!news.eyrie.org!beagle.ediacara.org!.POSTED.beagle.ediacara.org!not-for-mail From: JTEM <jtem01@gmail.com> Newsgroups: talk.origins Subject: Blow the roof off of evolution: Alien biology Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2024 04:10:23 -0400 Organization: Eek Lines: 142 Sender: to%beagle.ediacara.org Approved: moderator@beagle.ediacara.org Message-ID: <v5b9lh$rccv$1@dont-email.me> Reply-To: jtem01@gmail.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: beagle.ediacara.org; posting-host="beagle.ediacara.org:3.132.105.89"; logging-data="27161"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@beagle.ediacara.org" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird To: talk-origins@moderators.isc.org Cancel-Lock: sha1:K75x6aCyKW8Z9OcmqXw5lueZTYg= Return-Path: <news@eternal-september.org> X-Original-To: talk-origins@ediacara.org Delivered-To: talk-origins@ediacara.org id 51DAF229870; Mon, 24 Jun 2024 04:10:06 -0400 (EDT) by beagle.ediacara.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C16522986E for <talk-origins@ediacara.org>; Mon, 24 Jun 2024 04:10:04 -0400 (EDT) id 125A77D12F; Mon, 24 Jun 2024 08:10:29 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: talk-origins@moderators.isc.org by mod-relay.zaccari.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E768E7D12E for <talk-origins@moderators.isc.org>; Mon, 24 Jun 2024 08:10:28 +0000 (UTC) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature ECDSA (P-256)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.eternal-september.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0AD7C5F72F for <talk-origins@moderators.isc.org>; Mon, 24 Jun 2024 08:10:26 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: name/0AD7C5F72F; dmarc=fail (p=none dis=none) header.from=gmail.com id C99B1DC01A9; Mon, 24 Jun 2024 10:10:25 +0200 (CEST) X-Injection-Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2024 10:10:25 +0200 (CEST) Content-Language: en-US X-Auth-Sender: U2FsdGVkX1/4kexp5qFIf3c3n72IQ1OW9myTJfhLTF0= FORGED_GMAIL_RCVD,FORGED_MUA_MOZILLA,FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN, FREEMAIL_FROM,FREEMAIL_REPLYTO_END_DIGIT,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS,URIBL_BLOCKED autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=3.4.6 smtp.eternal-september.org Bytes: 7362 We all believe, accept that humanity is not alone in this universe. Most take for granted that we're not even alone with our galaxy. And if you do stand with the absolute majority on this one, there are quite a number of points you must also accept as true, not the least of which would be... #1. Aliens know that we're here. This is always one of two facts about alien civilizations that blows my mind; they know that we are here. No, not from our TV and radio signals. They're far too weak to be detectable and even if they could pick them up they'd be nothing but noise. No, aliens know that we're here because they can read our biosignatures. We humans only found our first exoplanet about 30 years ago or so, and already our tech can find biosignatures over 100 light years away. NOTE: This is untested science. Meaning, we can detect what we identify as biosignatures but unless and until we can confirm any biology it remains more or less theory... The earth has been hosting life for more than 3 billion years, and that life was so prevalent that it actually sparked it's own extinction event some 2 billion years ago, when life so saturated the atmosphere with oxygen that it sparked a mass die-off. Yuck. Anyway, let's go back THAT far, the 2 billion years, and say we've only been detectable since then... If aliens are within 100 light years from us they could likely detect our technosignatures as well. In which case, yes, they would know that a civilization exists on earth. #2. Alien signals are reaching us CONSTANTLY. Alien signals are, to us, what microbes were to humans prior to the invention of microscopes. Even when people had worked out that they had to be there, they had no way of seeing them. Alien signals are reaching us though, from every direction. #3. The odds overwhelmingly favor alien tech sent to the earth. Even if there's only a 1-in-a-million chance that an alien civilization will send technology towards us, it's been 2 billion years since the Great Oxygenation Event I chose as our starting point (taking place well over a billion years AFTER life first appeared here). 2 billion == 2,000 million So if there's a 1-in-a-million shot for a civilization to send tech, figure on 2,000 probes/ships sent our way. Of course, looking at these time spans we could likely only find them indirectly -- impressions in the fossil record, or (more likely), anomalous elements that had to be introduced from outside an environment. Oo! A better place to look for this tech would be in our solar system! If it's active, that's where it should be, and if it's dormant it has a better chance to survive there, even in fragments, than a geologically active earth. #4. If the theory that Mars once hosted life is true, and even that Mars may have spawned life prior to the earth, alien tech would have been directed towards Mars. Mars could have been displaying detectable biosignatures for 500 million to a billion years prior to the earth. A reasonable person might reasonably argue that 500 or more probes/ships sent towards Mars is not unreasonable. So, the earth would not be our only place to search. #5. We can't bet on all aliens being god like. It's likely that any civilization sending tech out way would make great efforts to ensure it is free of contamination, as we do. And we fail all the time. We're not going to get alien DNA, right? If their tech has been shattered, floating around our solar system for a million years the DNA is "Gone," in a sense. But it's basic components are not. Adenine (A), thymine (T), guanine (G), and cytosine (C) are all known from meteorites. They clearly have zero difficulty surviving for a very long time, even surviving the fiery "Re-entry" into our atmosphere... though in their case it would be "Entry" and not "Re-entry." This alone, even without working out any sequencing, could tell us a lot -- starting with whether or not they even had DNA! Alien biology is big. It's huge. It is perhaps the single greatest scientific discovery that we can confidently predict to lay ahead. And yet it is no priority for us what so ever. It's insignificant. Nature, the magazine, oh so respected, of so "Science" and all, called $11 billion for a Mars return mission an "Astronomical" price. Biden has already wasted some $175.9 billion on the Ukraine, and counting. Unlimited wealth for somebody else's war, nothing for the search for life... Even if we just take the money Biden is given to the Palestinians, when diplomats and political experts agree that they would hate us for free, would get us about 90% to a Mars return mission. But paying people to hate us is more important than the greatest scientific discovery we can realistically expect within a lifetime. -- https://jtem.tumblr.com/tagged/The%20Book%20of%20JTEM/page/5