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From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory,sci.logic
Subject: Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 -- Ben agrees that Sipser approved
 criteria is met
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2024 21:56:17 -0500
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On 6/26/2024 9:39 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
> On 6/26/24 10:13 PM, olcott wrote:
>> On 6/26/2024 8:52 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>> On 6/26/24 9:30 PM, Mike Terry wrote:
>>>> On 27/06/2024 02:15, Mike Terry wrote:
>>>>> On 27/06/2024 01:42, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>> On 6/26/24 8:20 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>> On 6/26/2024 6:55 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 6/26/24 7:46 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 6/26/2024 6:41 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 6/26/24 9:42 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/26/2024 6:02 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/25/24 11:42 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> That is not the way that it actually works.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> That the the way that lies are defined.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Source for you claim?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Where is you finite set of steps from the truthmakers of the 
>>>>>>>>>>>> system to that claim?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _DDD()
>>>>>>>>>>> [00002172] 55               push ebp      ; housekeeping
>>>>>>>>>>> [00002173] 8bec             mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping
>>>>>>>>>>> [00002175] 6872210000       push 00002172 ; push DDD
>>>>>>>>>>> [0000217a] e853f4ffff       call 000015d2 ; call H0(DDD)
>>>>>>>>>>> [0000217f] 83c404           add esp,+04
>>>>>>>>>>> [00002182] 5d               pop ebp
>>>>>>>>>>> [00002183] c3               ret
>>>>>>>>>>> Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183]
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The call from DDD to H0(DDD) when DDD is correctly emulated
>>>>>>>>>>> by H0 cannot possibly return.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Sure it can. I have shown an H0 that does so.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I already told you that example does not count.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I can't keep repeating those details or others
>>>>>>>>> that so far have no idea what an x86 emulator is
>>>>>>>>> will be baffled beyond all hope of comprehension.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> WHy not?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We have already been over that you know that you cheated.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nope, since you didn't put in the rule, and if you had it would 
>>>>>> have shown that you lied, as if H0 is a pure function then the 
>>>>>> call to H0 emulated by H0 needs to have the same behaivor as the 
>>>>>> direct call to H0 by main.
>>>>>
>>>>> Incidentally, the nonconformance you're referring to is shown 
>>>>> explicitly in the "195 page trace" that PO linked to.  [I.e. the 
>>>>> simulated H does not correctly track the code path of the outer H.]
>>>>
>>>> I suppose I should have made clear, that's not simply due to the 
>>>> simulated H being aborted.  There is an instruction in H: [actually, 
>>>> in Init_Halts_HH()]
>>>>
>>>> [000012e4] 753b jnz 00001321
>>>>
>>>> and in outer H control proceeds to 000012e6  [i.e. branch not taken],
>>>> whilein simulated H control proceeds to 00001321  [i.e. branch taken]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Mike.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Would need to look closer at the code, but I bet that the simulated 
>>> machine is looking into the trace buffer to see if it is simulated or 
>>> not.
>>>
>>> In effect, it is misusing static memory just like he says isn't allowed.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> The slaves to a UTM either use a portion of the UTMs tape
>> or they can't possibly exist. There is probably a more pure
>> way to encode this.
>>
> 
> Nope, they use virtual memory provided by the UTM.
> 

That *is* what it *is* doing.
The UTM gets this from x86utm.
The slaves use the already allocated memory.

> They write to what they consider to be their tape, and the UTM figures 
> out how to store that on its tape to be able to give it back when 
> requested.
> 
That is already what it does.

> Of course, you never understood the need for putting the simulated 
> machine in its own virtual memory space.

I have been doing that for 3.5 years.
It has its own stack registers and RAM.

The machine code is the same code, yet executed
as a separate process.

-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer