Path: ...!weretis.net!feeder9.news.weretis.net!panix!.POSTED.panix2.panix.com!not-for-mail
From: jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: The insane progress nobody is talking about
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2024 13:54:02 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Public Access Networks Corp.
Message-ID: <v5jqtp$n8c$1@reader1.panix.com>
References: <slrnv760nq.ve1.naddy@lorvorc.mips.inka.de> <ejdo7jtfspe09pum7s4he4o7gpb14oaual@4ax.com> <v5ieu1$2dflu$1@dont-email.me> <v5ika2$2i6do$1@dont-email.me>
Injection-Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2024 13:54:02 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader1.panix.com; posting-host="panix2.panix.com:166.84.1.2";
	logging-data="23820"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@panix.com"
X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test77 (Sep 1, 2010)
Bytes: 5625
Lines: 102

In article <v5ika2$2i6do$1@dont-email.me>,
Cryptoengineer  <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
>On 6/26/2024 9:23 PM, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
>> On 6/26/2024 8:50 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>>> On Tue, 25 Jun 2024 15:42:48 -0400, Cryptoengineer
>>> <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 6/23/2024 9:12 PM, Joy Beeson wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 20 Jun 2024 11:07:21 -0600, John Savard
>>>>> <quadibloc@servername.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, 20 Jun 2024 09:15:56 -0700, Paul S Person
>>>>>> <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Kind of like Rapid Transit, which promises that, in 30 years, there
>>>>>>> will be 30% fewer cars on the road /than there would be without it/,
>>>>>>> not 30% fewer than there are today.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here in Edmonton, a couple of years ago we had a massive change to all
>>>>>> our bus routes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The main upshot for the inner city is that the routes have been
>>>>>> "optimized", but their frequency of service has been reduced in many
>>>>>> instances, meaning a bus trip needs to be planned ahead, not done on
>>>>>> impulse. (This makes it easier to comply with the single-use bag
>>>>>> bylaw!)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This was done to free up resources to increase bus service to the
>>>>>> suburbs. The hope was that this would result in the people whoi live
>>>>>> there, who pretty much all have cars, taking the bus more often.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is a good intention, since reducing carbon emissions is important,
>>>>>> but expecting people with cars to start taking the bus? Anyone who
>>>>>> lived in the real world would have known this was ludicrous. So they
>>>>>> just ruined the bus service for people who need the bus for no reason.
>>>>>
>>>>> I will start using the bus service when it takes me from where I am to
>>>>> where I want to go, and picks me up when I have my coat on, no sooner
>>>>> and not much later.
>>>>>
>>>>> Doesn't matter, since this town has no bus service -- and can't have
>>>>> any.  Mass transit works only when masses want to transit.
>>>>
>>>> For someone who already has a car to switch to public transit would
>>>> require the PT to be *substantially* cheaper, faster, or more
>>>> convenient.
>>>>
>>>> It can happen, but, for example, a commute to my last workplace by
>>>> PT would take over 4.5 hours, vs 45 minutes to an hour by car. It
>>>> would include about 20 minutes of walking, commuter rail, Boston T,
>>>> and a bus.
>>>>
>>>> It would be hard to persuade me to do that.
>>>
>>> And so it should be.
>>>
>>> I haven't driven since 1983. I haven't owned a car since 1982, and
>>> that was in West Germany. I really like public transit.
>>>
>>> But someone with the commute you describe cannot be expected to use
>>> it. And other situations exist, such as weekly grocery shopping for a
>>> large family, or having to transport entire 12-year-old soccer teams
>>> around.
>> 
>> And that's kind of the problem.  Our whole society is built around 
>> families having, AND USING, cars.
>
>My case is a clear no go - there's a commuter rail station about a
>mile away, but the Boston commuter system as designed with the
>assumption that everyone wanted to go to the city center - my last work
>place was about 8 miles out, but NW of town, while I live W of town.
>
The Kitchener-Waterloo variant is that, having finally completed the
light rail project, the entire bus route system was redrawn with the
LRT playing a key role in north-south journeys. Where possible, bus
routes cross the LRT and it's supposed to be easy to transfer from
one to the other. 

It used to be that if I wanted to get from where I live to where I 
work, I could walk a kilometre, hop on an 8, and 40 minutes later
I would be at work. Now I need to make at least one transfer so
I have to plan on just missing the second vehicle, so add the 
interval between successive trains or buses to the trip time. 
It is also not a bad idea to assume at least one idiot will drive
into the side of the train during the trip*.
 
The changes also trippled the distance I have to walk from the 
closest stop to work. Which is fine for me as I walk quickly 
and don't easily get tired but isn't much fun for people for 
whom walking is onerous.

Fortuitously, parking at UWaterloo is nightmarish. 

* Mostly this seems to be people underestimating how fast the
LRT is bearing down on the crossing they want to drive across,
but I did see one driver reading his phone on the way through 
an intersection. 

-- 
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll