Path: ...!news.mixmin.net!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: Why do people here insist on denying these verified facts?
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2024 14:42:21 -0500
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 117
Message-ID: <v5kfat$2rv8r$2@dont-email.me>
References: <v56n8h$3pr25$1@dont-email.me> <v58ql8$9g3i$1@dont-email.me>
 <v597ju$brmn$2@dont-email.me> <v5b7f8$qu74$1@dont-email.me>
 <v5btit$v0vb$5@dont-email.me> <v5bub0$vagk$1@dont-email.me>
 <v5e3ou$1ge18$2@dont-email.me> <v5eg5j$1ikpr$3@dont-email.me>
 <v5ghfv$21s9r$1@dont-email.me> <v5h2vs$24jbd$3@dont-email.me>
 <v5j3nn$2km3o$1@dont-email.me>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2024 21:42:21 +0200 (CEST)
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="d7b6b7ddfe8775f34f568700240d9d1b";
	logging-data="3013915"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org";	posting-account="U2FsdGVkX197kW4INyKBBw7NdcXD87Fc"
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird
Cancel-Lock: sha1:QcVds8h8fmxFubPWg/AtxM0pujY=
In-Reply-To: <v5j3nn$2km3o$1@dont-email.me>
Content-Language: en-US
Bytes: 6334

On 6/27/2024 2:18 AM, Mikko wrote:
> On 2024-06-26 12:53:16 +0000, olcott said:
> 
>> On 6/26/2024 2:54 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>
>>> Obviously false. The meaning of H(P,P) is determined by the text of H.
>>> The meaning is fully determined by the complier that complies to the
>>> x86 code and the semantics of x86. If one simulator interpretes the
>>> x86 code differently from another simulator then one of them does not
>>> follow the x86 semantics and is therefore incorrect.
>>
>> _DDD()
>> [00002172] 55               push ebp      ; housekeeping
>> [00002173] 8bec             mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping
>> [00002175] 6872210000       push 00002172 ; push DDD
>> [0000217a] e853f4ffff       call 000015d2 ; call H0(DDD)
>> [0000217f] 83c404           add esp,+04
>> [00002182] 5d               pop ebp
>> [00002183] c3               ret
>> Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183]
>>
>> The call from DDD to
>> the x86 emulator H0(DDD) at machine address 0000217a
>> when DDD is correctly emulated by H0 cannot possibly return.
>>
>> When DDD is correctly emulated by H0 then H0 must emulate itself
>> emulating DDD. This derives recursive emulation.
>>
>> When DDD is correctly emulated by H1 then H1 NEED NOT emulate itself
>> emulating DDD. This DOES NOT derive recursive emulation.
> 
> When DDD is emulated by H1 then H1 needs to the call to H0 and the
> instructions of H0 which emulate DDD and its call to H0 and a recorsive
> emulation follows. If H1 emulates correctly it must not emulate the
> emulation of the instruction at 217f. Unless, of course, you lied
> about H0.
> 

You contradict yourself.
*Here is what actually happens*

_DDD()
[00002172] 55         push ebp
[00002173] 8bec       mov ebp,esp
[00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD
[0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH0
[0000217f] 83c404     add esp,+04
[00002182] 5d         pop ebp
[00002183] c3         ret
Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183]

_main()
[00002192] 55         push ebp
[00002193] 8bec       mov ebp,esp
[00002195] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD
[0000219a] e863f3ffff call 00001502 ; call HHH1(DDD)
[0000219f] 83c404     add esp,+04
[000021a2] 50         push eax
[000021a3] 6843070000 push 00000743
[000021a8] e8b5e5ffff call 00000762
[000021ad] 83c408     add esp,+08
[000021b0] eb04       jmp 000021b6
[000021b2] 33c0       xor eax,eax
[000021b4] eb02       jmp 000021b8
[000021b6] 33c0       xor eax,eax
[000021b8] 5d         pop ebp
[000021b9] c3         ret
Size in bytes:(0040) [000021b9]

  machine   stack     stack     machine    assembly
  address   address   data      code       language
  ========  ========  ========  =========  =============
[00002192][00103826][00000000] 55         push ebp
[00002193][00103826][00000000] 8bec       mov ebp,esp
[00002195][00103822][00002172] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD
[0000219a][0010381e][0000219f] e863f3ffff call 00001502 ; call HHH1(DDD)
New slave_stack at:1038ca

Begin Local Halt Decider Simulation   Execution Trace Stored at:1138d2
[00002172][001138c2][001138c6] 55         push ebp
[00002173][001138c2][001138c6] 8bec       mov ebp,esp
[00002175][001138be][00002172] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD
[0000217a][001138ba][0000217f] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH0(DDD)
New slave_stack at:14e2f2

Begin Local Halt Decider Simulation   Execution Trace Stored at:15e2fa
[00002172][0015e2ea][0015e2ee] 55         push ebp
[00002173][0015e2ea][0015e2ee] 8bec       mov ebp,esp
[00002175][0015e2e6][00002172] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD
[0000217a][0015e2e2][0000217f] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH0(DDD)
New slave_stack at:198d1a
[00002172][001a8d12][001a8d16] 55         push ebp
[00002173][001a8d12][001a8d16] 8bec       mov ebp,esp
[00002175][001a8d0e][00002172] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD
[0000217a][001a8d0a][0000217f] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH0(DDD)
Local Halt Decider: Infinite Recursion Detected Simulation Stopped

[0000217f][001138c2][001138c6] 83c404     add esp,+04   ; return to DDD
[00002182][001138c6][000015b7] 5d         pop ebp
[00002183][001138ca][0003a980] c3         ret           ; return to main
[0000219f][00103826][00000000] 83c404     add esp,+04
[000021a2][00103822][00000001] 50         push eax
[000021a3][0010381e][00000743] 6843070000 push 00000743
[000021a8][0010381e][00000743] e8b5e5ffff call 00000762
Input_Halts = 1
[000021ad][00103826][00000000] 83c408     add esp,+08
[000021b0][00103826][00000000] eb04       jmp 000021b6
[000021b6][00103826][00000000] 33c0       xor eax,eax
[000021b8][0010382a][00000018] 5d         pop ebp
[000021b9][0010382e][00000000] c3         ret
Number of Instructions Executed(352835) == 5266 Pages


-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer