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From: Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org>
Newsgroups: comp.theory,sci.logic
Subject: Re: People are still trying to get away with disagreeing with the
semantics of the x86 language
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2024 21:24:56 -0400
Organization: i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
Message-ID: <v5t0h8$1kfbr$12@i2pn2.org>
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On 6/30/24 9:03 PM, olcott wrote:
> On 6/30/2024 7:44 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>> On 6/30/24 8:27 PM, olcott wrote:
>>> On 6/30/2024 7:13 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>> On 6/30/24 8:00 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> THIS SEQUENCE CANNOT POSSIBLY RETURN WHY PERSISTENTLY LIE ABOUT IT?
>>>>> THIS SEQUENCE CANNOT POSSIBLY RETURN WHY PERSISTENTLY LIE ABOUT IT?
>>>>> THIS SEQUENCE CANNOT POSSIBLY RETURN WHY PERSISTENTLY LIE ABOUT IT?
>>>>> THIS SEQUENCE CANNOT POSSIBLY RETURN WHY PERSISTENTLY LIE ABOUT IT?
>>>>> THIS SEQUENCE CANNOT POSSIBLY RETURN WHY PERSISTENTLY LIE ABOUT IT?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> But it does, just after H gives up its simulation.
>>>>
>>>> You have even show that with a simulation.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Liar Liar Pants on Fire !!!
>>> Liar Liar Pants on Fire !!!
>>> Liar Liar Pants on Fire !!!
>>
>> Are you forgetting this message:
>>
>> On 4/27/21 12:55 AM, olcott wrote:
>> Message-ID: <Teudndbu59GVBBr9nZ2dnUU7-V2dnZ2d@giganews.com>
>> > void H_Hat(u32 P)
>> > {
>> > u32 Input_Halts = Halts(P, P);
>> > if (Input_Halts)
>> > HERE: goto HERE;
>> > }
>> >
>> >
>> > int main()
>> > {
>> > H_Hat((u32)H_Hat);
>> > }
>> >
>> >
>> > _H_Hat()
>> > [00000b98](01) 55 push ebp
>> > [00000b99](02) 8bec mov ebp,esp
>> >
>> [00000b9b](01) 51 push ecx
>> > [00000b9c](03) 8b4508 mov eax,[ebp+08]
>> > [00000b9f](01) 50 push eax
>> > [00000ba0](03) 8b4d08 mov ecx,[ebp+08]
>> > [00000ba3](01) 51 push ecx
>> > [00000ba4](05) e88ffdffff call 00000938
>> > [00000ba9](03) 83c408 add esp,+08
>> > [00000bac](03) 8945fc mov [ebp-04],eax
>> > [00000baf](04) 837dfc00 cmp dword [ebp-04],+00
>> > [00000bb3](02) 7402 jz 00000bb7
>> > [00000bb5](02) ebfe jmp 00000bb5
>> > [00000bb7](02) 8be5 mov esp,ebp
>> > [00000bb9](01) 5d pop ebp
>> > [00000bba](01) c3 ret
>> > Size in bytes:(0035) [00000bba]
>> >
>> > _main()
>> > [00000bc8](01) 55 push ebp
>> > [00000bc9](02) 8bec mov ebp,esp
>> > [00000bcb](05) 68980b0000 push 00000b98
>> > [00000bd0](05) e8c3ffffff call 00000b98
>> > [00000bd5](03) 83c404 add esp,+04
>> > [00000bd8](02) 33c0 xor eax,eax
>> > [00000bda](01) 5d pop ebp
>> > [00000bdb](01) c3 ret
>> > Size in bytes:(0020) [00000bdb]
>> >
>> > ===============================
>> > ...[00000bc8][001015d4][00000000](01) 55 push ebp
>> > ...[00000bc9][001015d4][00000000](02) 8bec mov ebp,esp
>> > ...[00000bcb][001015d0][00000b98](05) 68980b0000 push 00000b98
>> > ...[00000bd0][001015cc][00000bd5](05) e8c3ffffff call 00000b98
>> > ...[00000b98][001015c8][001015d4](01) 55 push ebp
>> > ...[00000b99][001015c8][001015d4](02) 8bec mov ebp,esp
>> > ...[00000b9b][001015c4][00000000](01) 51 push ecx
>> > ...[00000b9c][001015c4][00000000](03) 8b4508 mov eax,[ebp+08]
>> > ...[00000b9f][001015c0][00000b98](01) 50 push eax
>> > ...[00000ba0][001015c0][00000b98](03) 8b4d08 mov ecx,[ebp+08]
>> > ...[00000ba3][001015bc][00000b98](01) 51 push ecx
>> > ...[00000ba4][001015b8][00000ba9](05) e88ffdffff call 00000938
>> > Begin Local Halt Decider Simulation at Machine Address:b98
>> > ...[00000b98][00211674][00211678](01) 55 push ebp
>> > ...[00000b99][00211674][00211678](02) 8bec mov ebp,esp
>> > ...[00000b9b][00211670][00201644](01) 51 push ecx
>> > ...[00000b9c][00211670][00201644](03) 8b4508 mov eax,[ebp+08]
>> > ...[00000b9f][0021166c][00000b98](01) 50 push eax
>> > ...[00000ba0][0021166c][00000b98](03) 8b4d08 mov ecx,[ebp+08]
>> > ...[00000ba3][00211668][00000b98](01) 51 push ecx
>> > ...[00000ba4][00211664][00000ba9](05) e88ffdffff call 00000938
>> > ...[00000b98][0025c09c][0025c0a0](01) 55 push ebp
>> > ...[00000b99][0025c09c][0025c0a0](02) 8bec mov ebp,esp
>> > ...[00000b9b][0025c098][0024c06c](01) 51 push ecx
>> > ...[00000b9c][0025c098][0024c06c](03) 8b4508 mov eax,[ebp+08]
>> > ...[00000b9f][0025c094][00000b98](01) 50 push eax
>> > ...[00000ba0][0025c094][00000b98](03) 8b4d08 mov ecx,[ebp+08]
>> > ...[00000ba3][0025c090][00000b98](01) 51 push ecx
>> > ...[00000ba4][0025c08c][00000ba9](05) e88ffdffff call 00000938
>> > Local Halt Decider: Infinite Recursion Detected Simulation Stopped
>>
>> Above decision was from the call the Halts inside H_Hat, deciding that
>> H_Hat(H_Hat) seems to be non-halting, it then returns that answer and
>> is processed below:
>>
>> > ...[00000ba9][001015c4][00000000](03) 83c408 add esp,+08
>> > ...[00000bac][001015c4][00000000](03) 8945fc mov [ebp-04],eax
>> > ...[00000baf][001015c4][00000000](04) 837dfc00 cmp dword
>> [ebp-04],+00
>> > ...[00000bb3][001015c4][00000000](02) 7402 jz 00000bb7
>> > ...[00000bb7][001015c8][001015d4](02) 8be5 mov esp,ebp
>> > ...[00000bb9][001015cc][00000bd5](01) 5d pop ebp
>> > ...[00000bba][001015d0][00000b98](01) c3 ret
>> > ...[00000bd5][001015d4][00000000](03) 83c404 add esp,+04
>> > ...[00000bd8][001015d4][00000000](02) 33c0 xor eax,eax
>> > ...[00000bda][001015d8][00100000](01) 5d pop ebp
>> > ...[00000bdb][001015dc][00000098](01) c3 ret
>>
>> SEE IT HALTED!
>>
>> > Number_of_User_Instructions(39)
>> > Number of Instructions Executed(26567)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> DDD correctly emulated by HHH calls an emulated HHH(DDD)
>>> that emulates its own DDD that calls an emulated HHH(DDD)
>>> that is either aborted at some point never returning or
>>> hits out-of-memory error never returning
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> But HHH doesn't "Correctly Emulation" DDD by the definition that
>> provides the full behavior.
>>
>> Since *THE* HHH DOES abort its emulation of *THIS* DDD, then THIS DDD
>> will return, just after this HHH has given up its emulation.
>>
>> You LIE by confusing THIS HHH with another machine you try to also
>> call HHH, looking at a DIFFERENT input you deceptively try to also
>> call DDD that is different because it has been paired with that other
>> HHH.
>>
>> None of that other behavior matters for THIS DDD.
>>
>> You are just proving you don't understand the meaning of the words you
>> are using, but you MAKE UP fake defintions out of your IGNORANCE and
>> lie that they are the right definitions.
>>
>>
>> Sorry, it looks like you are fated for a Hot time in the future.
>
> Your despicable lying strawman deception may work on fools
> I am no fool.
>
> I had to dumb this down because even the smartest
> people here were overwhelmed:
>
> The call from DDD to HHH(DDD) when N steps of DDD are
> correctly emulated by any pure function x86 emulator
> HHH at machine address 0000217a cannot possibly return.
But that is NOT the "behavior of the input", and CAN NOT BE SO DEFINED.
"N Steps", where that N is determined by the decider, make the criteria
========== REMAINDER OF ARTICLE TRUNCATED ==========