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From: moviePig <nobody@nowhere.com>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv
Subject: Re: Snopes Finally Debunks Left-Wing Claim of "Very Fine People" in
 Charlottesville
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2024 11:58:39 -0400
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On 7/1/2024 5:12 AM, trotsky wrote:
> On 6/30/24 4:12 PM, moviePig wrote:
>> On 6/30/2024 4:30 PM, trotsky wrote:
>>> On 6/30/24 11:29 AM, moviePig wrote:
>>>> On 6/30/2024 6:55 AM, trotsky wrote:
>>>>> On 6/29/24 12:15 PM, moviePig wrote:
>>>>>> On 6/29/2024 1:01 PM, moviePig wrote:
>>>>>>> On 6/29/2024 12:22 PM, trotsky wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 6/28/24 5:22 PM, moviePig wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 6/28/2024 5:10 PM, shawn wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 28 Jun 2024 19:39:52 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
>>>>>>>>>> <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> It's seven years after the fact and the damage has long 
>>>>>>>>>>>> since been done, but
>>>>>>>>>>>> the left-wing fact checkers at Snopes have finally come out 
>>>>>>>>>>>> and admitted the
>>>>>>>>>>>> whole claim that Trump called neo-Nazis "very fine people" 
>>>>>>>>>>>> was a hoax. I have
>>>>>>>>>>>> no idea why, but credit where it's due, I suppose?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-very-fine-people/
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Eh
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It's another example of the more Trump talked, the more he 
>>>>>>>>>>> buried
>>>>>>>>>>> himself. There was no way for him to win. He should have 
>>>>>>>>>>> ignored it, or
>>>>>>>>>>> limited his comments to condemning the murder.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I don't put the "let's go beat up Nazis" counterprotestors on 
>>>>>>>>>>> a high
>>>>>>>>>>> moral plane. As far as I could tell, the protestors on both 
>>>>>>>>>>> sides had
>>>>>>>>>>> pretty low morals.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I've personally objected to the removal of Civil War 
>>>>>>>>>>> monuments making
>>>>>>>>>>> the generals god-like, but MY reason is rather different than 
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> neo-Nazis: I don't think the modern generation should be 
>>>>>>>>>>> re-writing
>>>>>>>>>>> history. A past generation erected those monuments and we 
>>>>>>>>>>> need to look
>>>>>>>>>>> the ugliness of American history square in the face so we 
>>>>>>>>>>> never forget
>>>>>>>>>>> that Civil War generals were honored by certain Americans for 
>>>>>>>>>>> the modern
>>>>>>>>>>> politics of that era.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> People are worried about those statues glorifying the actions 
>>>>>>>>>> of those
>>>>>>>>>> people. I don't think the reasons behind the erecting of the 
>>>>>>>>>> statues
>>>>>>>>>> or the timing is brought up that often. Certainly I never knew 
>>>>>>>>>> growing
>>>>>>>>>> up the time frame for the erecting of the statues or the actual
>>>>>>>>>> reasons behind it. It would be better to have kept the statues 
>>>>>>>>>> and put
>>>>>>>>>> more effort into teaching the history behind their erection.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Not that I think it would change things as it seems most 
>>>>>>>>>> people forget
>>>>>>>>>> what little bit of history they get taught in school not long 
>>>>>>>>>> after
>>>>>>>>>> leaving school.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I despite prettying up history. Trump was still wrong.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Agreed. History is full of ugly moments that are best 
>>>>>>>>>> remembered in
>>>>>>>>>> the hopes that we don't repeat them.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> A descriptive plaque with any such statue would seem to be so 
>>>>>>>>> obvious a solution that you have to wonder if both sides 
>>>>>>>>> vehemently oppose it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We don't need statues to learn history.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In fact, these statues seem to be about forgetting it...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Also: my point is that, even if Trump had said verbatim "Nazis are 
>>>>>> fine people", it'd be defensible as a (non-Freudian) slip of the 
>>>>>> tongue ...because Trump simply isn't suicidal.  And, trying to 
>>>>>> indict him on such weak claims only undercuts the many strong ones.
>>>>>
>>>>> None of what you said has anything to do with the facts in evidence.
>>>>
>>>> The fact is that even if there were a video of Trump saying "Nazis 
>>>> are fine people" (which, afaik, there isn't) it would beggar 
>>>> plausibility.
>>>
>>>
>>> He said there are fine people on both sides.  Why don't you get what 
>>> the discussion is about?
>>
>> Yes, but the two sides weren't "Nazis" and "non-Nazis".  (Yes, I know 
>> that all the Nazis were on only one of the sides.)
> 
> 
> The topic was neo-Nazis.  This is exhausting.
> 
> 
> Reporter: "Mr. President, are you putting what you’re calling the 
> alt-left and white supremacists on the same moral plane?"
> 
> Trump: "I’m not putting anybody on a moral plane. What I’m saying is 
> this: You had a group on one side and you had a group on the other, and 
> they came at each other with clubs -- and it was vicious and it was 
> horrible. And it was a horrible thing to watch.
> 
> "But there is another side. There was a group on this side. You can call 
> them the left -- you just called them the left -- that came violently 
> attacking the other group. So you can say what you want, but that’s the 
> way it is.
> 
> Reporter: (Inaudible) "… both sides, sir. You said there was hatred, 
> there was violence on both sides. Are the --"
> 
> Trump: "Yes, I think there’s blame on both sides. If you look at both 
> sides -- I think there’s blame on both sides. And I have no doubt about 
> it, and you don’t have any doubt about it either. And if you reported it 
> accurately, you would say."
> 
> Reporter: "The neo-Nazis started this. They showed up in Charlottesville 
> to protest --"
> 
> Trump: "Excuse me, excuse me. They didn’t put themselves -- and you had 
> some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were 
> very fine people, on both sides. You had people in that group. Excuse 
> me, excuse me. I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in 
> that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a 
> very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. 
> Lee to another name."

Yes, a strict reading of that transcript has Trump speaking well of 
"some neo-Nazis".  But I don't see that the discourse is consistent 
enough to support such rigor.  (Few exchanges are, especially Trump's.) 
E.g., note that at first the "sides" are alt-Left vs. white 
supremacists, and later become statue-protesters vs. statue-defenders. 
(And again, even if Trump had said "Nazis are fine people", I'd bet he 
simply misspoke -- because he's not suicidal.)