Path: ...!feeds.phibee-telecom.net!3.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory,sci.logic
Subject: Re: 197 page execution trace of DDD correctly simulated by HHH
Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2024 20:28:13 -0500
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 252
Message-ID: <v629fd$1s632$2@dont-email.me>
References: <v4vrfg$2793f$1@dont-email.me> <v5mcvo$1cgj0$3@i2pn2.org>
 <v5mklg$3cibm$7@dont-email.me> <v5mo8a$1d3t3$2@i2pn2.org>
 <v5mqge$3e4fd$2@dont-email.me> <v5msjt$1d3t3$9@i2pn2.org>
 <v5mtba$3elj0$1@dont-email.me> <v5n2ah$1d3t3$10@i2pn2.org>
 <v5n2sk$3fm1k$1@dont-email.me> <v5po6i$1h5u1$1@i2pn2.org>
 <v5pp9m$2jk8$1@dont-email.me> <v5rcrh$fkks$1@dont-email.me>
 <v5s44b$jvgt$2@dont-email.me> <v5tp2t$vsqr$1@dont-email.me>
 <v5u97g$12udb$6@dont-email.me> <v5vi62$1oanb$3@i2pn2.org>
 <v5vljj$1b0k9$3@dont-email.me> <v5vocu$1oanb$10@i2pn2.org>
 <v5vp03$1fbi8$1@dont-email.me> <v5vpht$1oana$8@i2pn2.org>
 <v5vrac$1fg22$2@dont-email.me> <v5vrnq$1oana$10@i2pn2.org>
 <v5vsff$1fqfa$2@dont-email.me>
 <e9c681b90a30f1c1c0b14c970675c5d6b104f535@i2pn2.org>
 <v60se2$1kr1q$5@dont-email.me>
 <04db95a103cfbcb76bd6082752ed89932cfce5d5@i2pn2.org>
 <v620nf$1qutj$1@dont-email.me>
 <adab42d299905f4219330596cccb5184f5e09597@i2pn2.org>
 <v621b9$1qutj$3@dont-email.me>
 <95b8d2686a17a5fee6b5811ca115c902fbc7b17a@i2pn2.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2024 03:28:14 +0200 (CEST)
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="29a678b7ecb7074967021c8dcb9f1179";
	logging-data="1972322"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org";	posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/spgjDgjgB0gDfjw7gT6ge"
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird
Cancel-Lock: sha1:IqtlOFWLWI3bA0rrrc2tiubJpZ4=
In-Reply-To: <95b8d2686a17a5fee6b5811ca115c902fbc7b17a@i2pn2.org>
Content-Language: en-US
Bytes: 12234

On 7/2/2024 8:07 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
> On 7/2/24 7:09 PM, olcott wrote:
>> On 7/2/2024 6:03 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>> On 7/2/24 6:58 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>> On 7/2/2024 5:44 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>> On 7/2/24 8:39 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>> On 7/2/2024 6:30 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>> On 7/1/24 11:34 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 7/1/2024 10:21 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 7/1/24 11:14 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 7/1/2024 9:44 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/1/24 10:34 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/1/2024 9:24 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/1/24 9:36 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/1/2024 7:38 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/1/24 8:59 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/1/2024 3:23 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Op 30.jun.2024 om 19:20 schreef olcott:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _DDD()
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002172] 55               push ebp      ; housekeeping
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002173] 8bec             mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002175] 6872210000       push 00002172 ; push DDD
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [0000217a] e853f4ffff       call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [0000217f] 83c404           add esp,+04
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002182] 5d               pop ebp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002183] c3               ret
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It cannot possibly return, because HHH aborts itself 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one cycle too early, showing that the emulation is 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> incorrect. If that is over your head, try to learn how 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> x86 instructions work.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _DDD()
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002172] 55               push ebp      ; housekeeping
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002173] 8bec             mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002175] 6872210000       push 00002172 ; push DDD
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [0000217a] e853f4ffff       call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [0000217f] 83c404           add esp,+04
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002182] 5d               pop ebp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002183] c3               ret
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DDD is correctly emulated by HHH which calls an
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> emulated HHH(DDD) to repeat the process until aborted.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> CAN'T BE.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A "Correct Emulation" is one that produces the same 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> result as the program at the input.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which can only possibly occur be disregarding the semantics
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the x86 language. Liars would do that ignoramuses would do
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that. Everyone with the equivalent of a BSCS would know that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what I said is true.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why do you say that? That is EXACTLY the definition of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Correct Emulation. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> WELL INDOCTRINATED FALSE ASSUMPTIONS ARE NOT TRUTH.
>>>>>>>>>>>> WELL INDOCTRINATED FALSE ASSUMPTIONS ARE NOT TRUTH.
>>>>>>>>>>>> WELL INDOCTRINATED FALSE ASSUMPTIONS ARE NOT TRUTH.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> And denying definitions is just lying.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It may seem that way when you don't bother to pay
>>>>>>>>>> attention that this definition is contradicted
>>>>>>>>>> by verified facts.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> WHAT "Verified facts".
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> THe fact that DDD will halt since your HHH(DDD) retuns?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Indoctrination will cause this. The only cure is
>>>>>>>>>> correct reasoning by assuming that everything that
>>>>>>>>>> anyone ever told you about anything is possibly
>>>>>>>>>> false until conclusively proven otherwise.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Nope, but failure to follow the defined rules gets you kick out 
>>>>>>>>> of the club.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If everyone always did this then Nazi propaganda
>>>>>>>>>> could not possibly have any chance of success.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But THEY Lied, and to could be shown so,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Just like your statements.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> void Infinite_Loop()
>>>>>>>>>>>> {
>>>>>>>>>>>>    HERE: goto HERE;
>>>>>>>>>>>> }
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> void Infinite_Recursion()
>>>>>>>>>>>> {
>>>>>>>>>>>>    Infinite_Recursion();
>>>>>>>>>>>> }
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> void DDD()
>>>>>>>>>>>> {
>>>>>>>>>>>>    HHH(DDD);
>>>>>>>>>>>> }
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Every C programmer that knows what an x86 emulator is knows
>>>>>>>>>>>> that when HHH emulates the machine language of 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Infinite_Loop, Infinite_Recursion, and DDD that it must 
>>>>>>>>>>>> abort these emulations
>>>>>>>>>>>> so that itself can terminate normally.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> SO THESE THREE INPUTS DO NOT FREAKING HALT
>>>>>>>>>>>> SO THESE THREE INPUTS DO NOT FREAKING HALT
>>>>>>>>>>>> SO THESE THREE INPUTS DO NOT FREAKING HALT
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> No, DDD does halt if HHH is a decider and HHH(DDD) returns.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> That is the same nutty bullshit as Gödel's 1931 incompleteness
>>>>>>>>>> theorem. If there are no truth preserving operations in PA to
>>>>>>>>>> either G or ~G then G has no truthmaker in PA making G not a
>>>>>>>>>> truth-bearer in PA.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But there ARE a set of truth preserving operations in PA to 
>>>>>>>>> show G, it is just that it takes an infinite number of them, so 
>>>>>>>>> they don't constitute a proof.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Diagonalization conclusively proves otherwise and you know it.
>>>>>>>> Maybe the issue is that you are fundamentally a liar.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> How?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I call your bluff, show your "cards" or FOLD.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That is not the way it works, you made a false claim and I
>>>>>> call your bluff on this false claim. You must provide a linked
>>>>>> source that agrees.
>>>>>
>>>>> Of course that is the way it works.
>>>>>
>>>>> You claim you can show something, and I ask you to show it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Failure just means you admit to being a liar.
>>>>>
>>>>> You need to show your proof, that you can form a "Diagonalization" 
>>>>> proof that Godel's sentence is not true.
========== REMAINDER OF ARTICLE TRUNCATED ==========