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From: Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant?
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2024 10:42:35 +0300
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On 2024-07-03 01:18:52 +0000, olcott said:

> On 7/2/2024 8:07 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>> On 7/2/24 7:03 PM, olcott wrote:
>>> On 7/2/2024 5:44 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>> On 7/2/24 3:46 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>> On 7/2/2024 2:17 PM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>>> Op 02.jul.2024 om 21:00 schreef olcott:
>>>>>>> On 7/2/2024 1:42 PM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>>>>> Op 02.jul.2024 om 14:22 schreef olcott:
>>>>>>>>> On 7/2/2024 3:22 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Op 02.jul.2024 om 03:25 schreef olcott:
>>>>>>>>>>> typedef void (*ptr)();
>>>>>>>>>>> int HHH(ptr P);
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> void Infinite_Loop()
>>>>>>>>>>> {
>>>>>>>>>>>    HERE: goto HERE;
>>>>>>>>>>> }
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> void Infinite_Recursion()
>>>>>>>>>>> {
>>>>>>>>>>>    Infinite_Recursion();
>>>>>>>>>>> }
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> void DDD()
>>>>>>>>>>> {
>>>>>>>>>>>    HHH(DDD);
>>>>>>>>>>> }
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> int main()
>>>>>>>>>>> {
>>>>>>>>>>>    HHH(Infinite_Loop);
>>>>>>>>>>>    HHH(Infinite_Recursion);
>>>>>>>>>>>    HHH(DDD);
>>>>>>>>>>> }
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Every C programmer that knows what an x86 emulator is knows
>>>>>>>>>>> that when HHH emulates the machine language of Infinite_Loop,
>>>>>>>>>>> Infinite_Recursion, and DDD that it must abort these emulations
>>>>>>>>>>> so that itself can terminate normally.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Whether or not it *must* abort is not very relevant.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> This <is> the problem that I am willing to discuss.
>>>>>>>>> I am unwilling to discuss any other problem.
>>>>>>>>> This does meet the Sipser approved criteria.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> <MIT Professor Sipser agreed to ONLY these verbatim words 10/13/2022>
>>>>>>>>>      If simulating halt decider H correctly simulates its input D
>>>>>>>>>      until H correctly determines that its simulated D would never
>>>>>>>>>      stop running unless aborted then
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>      H can abort its simulation of D and correctly report that D
>>>>>>>>>      specifies a non-halting sequence of configurations.
>>>>>>>>> </MIT Professor Sipser agreed to ONLY these verbatim words 10/13/2022>
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Repeating the same thing that has already been proved to be irrelevant 
>>>>>>>> does not bring the discussion any further.
>>>>>>>> Sipser is not relevant, because that is about a correct simulation. 
>>>>>>>> Your simulation is not correct.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> If you disagree with this you are either dishonest
>>>>>>> or clueless I no longer care which one.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _DDD()
>>>>>>> [00002172] 55               push ebp      ; housekeeping
>>>>>>> [00002173] 8bec             mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping
>>>>>>> [00002175] 6872210000       push 00002172 ; push DDD
>>>>>>> [0000217a] e853f4ffff       call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD)
>>>>>>> [0000217f] 83c404           add esp,+04
>>>>>>> [00002182] 5d               pop ebp
>>>>>>> [00002183] c3               ret
>>>>>>> Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183]
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> DDD is correctly emulated by HHH which calls an
>>>>>>> emulated HHH(DDD) to repeat the process until aborted.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> HHH repeats the process twice and aborts too soon.
>>>>> 
>>>>> You are freaking thinking too damn narrow minded.
>>>>> DDD is correctly emulated by any HHH that can exist
>>>>> which calls this emulated HHH(DDD) to repeat the process
>>>>> until aborted (which may be never).
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Only if your definiton of "Correct" includes things that are not correct.
>>>> 
>>>> Your problem is you just assume things to exist that don't, because you 
>>>> don't understand what Truth actually means.
>>> 
>> 
>> So, where is that Diagonalization proof you said you had to show Godel wrong?
>> 
>> Or are you just admitting you LIED about that?
>> 
>>> void DDD()
>>> {
>>>    HHH(DDD);
>>> }
>>> 
>>> int main()
>>> {
>>>    HHH(DDD);
>>> }
>>> 
>>> <MIT Professor Sipser agreed to ONLY these verbatim words 10/13/2022>
>>>      If simulating halt decider H correctly simulates its input D
>>>      until H correctly determines that its simulated D would never
>>>      stop running unless aborted then
>>> 
>>>      H can abort its simulation of D and correctly report that D
>>>      specifies a non-halting sequence of configurations.
>>> </MIT Professor Sipser agreed to ONLY these verbatim words 10/13/2022>
>>> 
>>> *Professor Sipser would agree that HHH/DDD meets the above criteria*
>>> 
>> Nope.
>> 
>> Your HHH that returns an answer does NOT "Correctly Simulate" its input 
>> by the definition of producing the exact results of executing the 
>> machine represented by it,
> 
> I can see what you fail to understand. Professor Sipser would
> not make this same mistake.
> 
> Professor Sipser probably does understand the x86 language.

What makes you think so? How can you justify "probably" instead of, say,
"pssobly"?

The following contains nothing relevant:

> Shared-memory implementation of the Karp-Sipser
> kernelization process
> https://inria.hal.science/hal-03404798/file/hipc2021.pdf


-- 
Mikko