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From: Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: hobby electronics
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2024 06:16:54 -0700
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On 7/3/2024 5:46 AM, Martin Brown wrote:
> Yes but far too late to be much use. Since Brexit there is even less teaching 
> of modern languages. English people have now become as lazy as Americans and so 
> expect everyone to speak English. My 1970's state secondary school had a 
> language lab with tape recorders and headsets for everybody and taught French, 
> German, Spanish, Greek & Latin.

In the US, there is little need for a "second language" (beyond first or second
generation citizens) as our land area is roughly equivalent to ALL of europe
(though population is only about half).

Many in the US never really "leave" the state in which they were born.  By
contrast, *you* might drive to France for *lunch*!

"Middle" school (12+13 year olds) introduces (introduced?) languages to
students.  Typically French, Spanish and Latin.  This typically continues
through high school (another 4 years).  But, it is always considered an
optional set of courses.  Typically only taken by "college bound" students.
I was 30 before I ever met a francophile.

Living here (a suburb of MX), I wish I had taken spanish, instead, as it
would have more utility.  (though anyone that I am likely to converse with
will know english -- even my iranian and japanese neighbors!).

> Everybody did French at first. Those that had done it at primary school had a 
> massive head start which we never regained. If you were any good at it you 
> could choose Latin or Greek. I chose Latin. I found I was much better at 
> ancient languages that didn't require speaking them!

Here, the problem with foreign languages is that you never have a *use* for
them (possibly excepting spanish).  Most folks had two or three non-english
languages spoken in their homes -- but, that's a generational thing and kids
often didn't see any value to picking up those as "secondary" languages.

I've also noticed that you tend to treat a second language differently
than your "native" tongue.  E.g., most of the time I think in english.
Yet, occasionally surprise myself when something comes out in another
language (greek, italian, polish, french, etc.).  There is a noticeable
slipping of the gears as my head tries to figure out what I wanted to say...
and then why it came out the way it did!

> Most educated Dutch or Swiss people I have encountered are fluent in at least 
> three languages. I had one intern from U Twente who was brilliant.

If you travel, much, in the US, you quickly realize there are different
dialects and vocabularies that can seem to be akin to foreign languages
to one that is not experienced in them.  E.g., talking to a Mainer is...
"interesting".  And, I am always taken aback when I hear someone say
"maysh" (mash).  Or, talk about a "ball bat" (what is it, a ball?  or a
bat?)

Place names are also highly localized in pronunciation.  Worcester (WOOS-tuh),
Billerica (bill-RICK-uh), Berlin (BURR-lin), New Haven (new HAY-ven), Boston
(BAH-ston), Nevada (na-VA-da), etc.  I've encountered people thousands of miles
from their homes and have been able to approach them and confront them with
their origins, based on their speaking mannerisms.

[When I was in Britain, this also seemed to be the case.  I was amused by
how many different "accents" would be present in a group of people who
worked/lived together!]

National media personalities tend to be cultivated for a midwestern
accent and speaking mannerisms.

> I learned some Russian at university too (for reading scientific papers) and 
> then later Japanese by immersion in Japan. In Belgium my Flemish was just about 
> good enough to get by - my wife's was better.