Path: ...!news.mixmin.net!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: Olcott seems to be willfully ignorant
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2024 17:40:21 +0200
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 80
Message-ID: <v63rd7$24jon$1@dont-email.me>
References: <v5vkun$1b0k9$1@dont-email.me> <v60dci$1ib5p$1@dont-email.me>
 <v60red$1kr1q$2@dont-email.me> <v61hn7$1oec9$1@dont-email.me>
 <v61ipa$1og2o$2@dont-email.me> <v61jod$1oec9$2@dont-email.me>
 <v61leu$1p1uo$1@dont-email.me>
 <7b6a00827bfcc84e99e19a0d0ae6028ebcdc263c@i2pn2.org>
 <v620vu$1qutj$2@dont-email.me>
 <f6e8f5de9a1e61c7970a92145ce8c1f9087ba431@i2pn2.org>
 <v628ts$1s632$1@dont-email.me>
 <178edf6a7c5329df35a9af6852ecbd41c0948ea1@i2pn2.org>
 <v629mp$1s632$3@dont-email.me>
 <168858894febbaa529d1704ea864bbe15cb8f635@i2pn2.org>
 <v62bgv$1s632$6@dont-email.me>
 <211a07c98d1fc183ed3e6c079ec1e883dd45f1cc@i2pn2.org>
 <v62f92$20moo$3@dont-email.me>
 <623debd817e63a256100bb15fed3af8d4fb969fe@i2pn2.org>
 <v62hc7$20moo$6@dont-email.me>
 <e3c734b6a1ce3386210f7700bf03d183334d4d55@i2pn2.org>
 <v63jkc$26loi$7@dont-email.me>
 <0600a243a3bb843ec505712dc7746d41e0ca66dc@i2pn2.org>
 <v63n8u$27f1a$3@dont-email.me>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2024 17:40:23 +0200 (CEST)
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="6d34e4518a0045f34950758630129c85";
	logging-data="2248471"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org";	posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+NFgx86krV/uuCuHuxdmnf"
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird
Cancel-Lock: sha1:QwInY5EYIXSNVsiIfIQvh+iVO0A=
In-Reply-To: <v63n8u$27f1a$3@dont-email.me>
Content-Language: en-GB
Bytes: 5684

Op 03.jul.2024 om 16:29 schreef olcott:
> On 7/3/2024 9:16 AM, joes wrote:
>> Am Wed, 03 Jul 2024 08:27:40 -0500 schrieb olcott:
>>> On 7/3/2024 6:44 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>> On 7/2/24 11:43 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>> On 7/2/2024 10:23 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>> On 7/2/24 11:07 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>> On 7/2/2024 9:35 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 7/2/24 10:03 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 7/2/2024 8:51 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 7/2/24 9:32 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/2/2024 8:25 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/2/24 9:18 PM, olcott wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> YOU are just a liar, as proved by the fact that you can not
>>>>>>>>>>>> give the Diagonalization proof you claimed you had.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> But I am NOT disagreeing with the x86 language.
>>>>>>>>>> Can you point out what fact of it I am disagreing about it?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Nope, and x86n emulation is only fully correct if it continues to
>>>>>>>> the final end.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Why do you say such ridiculously stupid things that you are are
>>>>>>> false?
>>>>>> And the only CORRECT EMULATION of that program is to infiniately loop
>>>>>> in the emulation.
>>>>> Not for a freaking termination analyzer nitwit.
>>>> Why do they get to lie?
>> Open question.
>>
>>>>>> Nothing says that you can't make a halt decider work with partial
>>>>>> emulation for SOME inputs. But the halt Decider just isn't itself a
>>>>>> fully correct emulator.
>>>>> You keep stupidly saying that less than an infinite emulation is an
>>>>> incorrect emulation. Why do you keep stupidly doing that?
>>>> Because it is. Partial emulations only show partial truth, and truth is
>>>> the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
>>>> BEHAVIOR needs the FULL description of what happens.
>>>>
>>> Why do you keep lying about this?
>>> As soon as HHH has seen a repeating state it has seen enough.
>> If the state is actually the same. But the simulated HHH sets a flag
>> or something to keep track if it is itself simulating a repetition. <-
>> Which it therefore isn’t.
>>
> 
> _DDD()
> [00002172] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping
> [00002173] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping
> [00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD
> [0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD)
> [0000217f] 83c404     add esp,+04
> [00002182] 5d         pop ebp
> [00002183] c3         ret
> Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183]
> 
> *This is the repeating state*

But not an *infinitely* repeating state. HHH simulates only two cycles. 
When it aborts itself, the simulated HHH has only one cycle to go.
A correct simulation of HHH (by another simulator) shows that it halts. 
However, HHH is not able to perform a similar correct simulation of itself.

> Begin Local Halt Decider Simulation   Execution Trace Stored at:1138cc
> [00002172][001138bc][001138c0] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping
> [00002173][001138bc][001138c0] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping
> [00002175][001138b8][00002172] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD
> [0000217a][001138b4][0000217f] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD)
> New slave_stack at:14e2ec
> [00002172][0015e2e4][0015e2e8] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping
> [00002173][0015e2e4][0015e2e8] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping
> [00002175][0015e2e0][00002172] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD
> [0000217a][0015e2dc][0000217f] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD)
> Local Halt Decider: Infinite Recursion Detected Simulation Stopped

Incorrect conclusion that it detects an infinite Recursion. It is only a 
two cycle recursion. So, the abort was premature.