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From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory,sci.logic
Subject: Re: Flat out dishonest or totally ignorant?
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2024 10:55:14 -0500
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On 7/3/2024 10:52 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
> Op 03.jul.2024 om 15:24 schreef olcott:
>> On 7/3/2024 3:42 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>> Op 03.jul.2024 om 05:55 schreef olcott:
>>>> On 7/2/2024 10:50 PM, joes wrote:
>>>>> Am Tue, 02 Jul 2024 14:46:38 -0500 schrieb olcott:
>>>>>> On 7/2/2024 2:17 PM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>>>> Op 02.jul.2024 om 21:00 schreef olcott:
>>>>>>>> On 7/2/2024 1:42 PM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Op 02.jul.2024 om 14:22 schreef olcott:
>>>>>>>>>> On 7/2/2024 3:22 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Op 02.jul.2024 om 03:25 schreef olcott:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Every C programmer that knows what an x86 emulator is knows 
>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>> when HHH emulates the machine language of Infinite_Loop,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Infinite_Recursion, and DDD that it must abort these 
>>>>>>>>>>>> emulations so
>>>>>>>>>>>> that itself can terminate normally.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Whether or not it *must* abort is not very relevant.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This <is> the problem that I am willing to discuss.
>>>>>>>>>> I am unwilling to discuss any other problem.
>>>>>>>>>> This does meet the Sipser approved criteria.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Repeating the same thing that has already been proved to be
>>>>>>>>> irrelevant does not bring the discussion any further.
>>>>>>>>> Sipser is not relevant, because that is about a correct 
>>>>>>>>> simulation.
>>>>>>>>> Your simulation is not correct.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you disagree with this you are either dishonest or clueless I no
>>>>>>>> longer care which one.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> DDD is correctly emulated by HHH which calls an emulated 
>>>>>>>> HHH(DDD) to
>>>>>>>> repeat the process until aborted.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> HHH repeats the process twice and aborts too soon.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You are freaking thinking too damn narrow minded.
>>>>>> DDD is correctly emulated by any HHH that can exist which calls this
>>>>>> emulated HHH(DDD) to repeat the process until aborted (which may be
>>>>>> never).
>>>>> Whatever HHH does, it does not run forever but aborts.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> HHH halts on input DDD.
>>>>
>>>> void DDD()
>>>> {
>>>>    HHH(DDD);
>>>> }
>>>>
>>>> DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly halt.
>>>>
>>>
>>> That would be an error of the simulator, because it aborts its own 
>>> simulation too soon, one cycle before the simulated HHH would return and 
>>
>> You dishonestly redefined the problem so that it has no correct answer.
> 
> (Ignoring an distracting irrelevant hominem remark.)
> 
> If you think that "What time is a three story building?" must have a 
> correct answer, you are wrong.
> Similarly, if you think that HHH can simulate itself correctly, you are 
> wrong.
> 
>         int H(ptr p, ptr i);
> 
>         int main()
>         {
>           return H(main, 0);
>         }
> 
> You showed that H returns, but that the simulation thinks it does not 
> return.
> DDD is making it unnecessarily complex, but has the same problem.

main correctly emulated by H never stops running unless aborted.

-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer