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Path: ...!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> Newsgroups: comp.theory,sci.logic Subject: Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2024 14:15:29 -0500 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 61 Message-ID: <v6480h$2ape0$1@dont-email.me> References: <v644pn$29t4h$3@dont-email.me> <v645v1$29pag$3@dont-email.me> <v646v5$2agfo$1@dont-email.me> <v647p3$29pag$6@dont-email.me> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2024 21:15:29 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="29a678b7ecb7074967021c8dcb9f1179"; logging-data="2450880"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+nN8tYRlu8s/ZVG1b0MjWF" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cancel-Lock: sha1:UdfJ5DrdsxmCtVUbc5lVVdwnsXc= Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: <v647p3$29pag$6@dont-email.me> Bytes: 3678 On 7/3/2024 2:11 PM, Fred. Zwarts wrote: > Op 03.jul.2024 om 20:57 schreef olcott: >> On 7/3/2024 1:40 PM, Fred. Zwarts wrote: >>> Op 03.jul.2024 om 20:20 schreef olcott: >>>> _DDD() >>>> [00002172] 55 push ebp ; housekeeping >>>> [00002173] 8bec mov ebp,esp ; housekeeping >>>> [00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD >>>> [0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD) >>>> [0000217f] 83c404 add esp,+04 >>>> [00002182] 5d pop ebp >>>> [00002183] c3 ret >>>> Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183] >>>> >>>> DDD correctly emulated by any element of the infinite >>>> set of every pure function HHH cannot possibly reach >>>> its own ret instruction and halt. That HHH aborts its >>>> emulation at some point or never aborts its emulation >>>> cannot possibly change this. >>>> >>> >>> Ad hominem attacks always try to hide a lack of argumentation. >>> >>> It has been proved that HHH cannot possibly correctly simulate itself. >> >> That is false and you know it. That might not be a >> flat out lie as it is an sloppy use of language. >> >> HHH does correctly simulate itself simulating DDD one time, >> then it stops correctly simulating itself because this criteria >> is met: >> >> HHH correctly simulates its input DDD until HHH >> correctly determines that its simulated DDD would >> never stop running unless aborted >> >> https://liarparadox.org/HHH(DDD)_Full_Trace.pdf >> >>> So, the above code shows that the incorrect simulation of DDD by HHH >>> is unable to reach the 'ret' instruction, because it either never >>> aborts, or aborts one cycle too soon, when the simulated HHH is only >>> one cycle from its own abort and return and then the return of DDD >>> would follow. >>> >> The criteria is: >> HHH correctly simulates its input DDD until HHH >> correctly determines that its simulated DDD would >> never stop running unless aborted > > It has been pointed out many times that this is sloppy use of language. It is the case that DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its own ret instruction NO MATTER WHAT. As soon as HHH sees this it is necessarily correct for HHH to reject DDD as non-halting. -- Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer