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From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory,sci.logic
Subject: Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Ben's agreement
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2024 09:05:20 -0500
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On 7/5/2024 8:54 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
> Op 05.jul.2024 om 15:16 schreef olcott:
>> On 7/5/2024 7:38 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>> Op 05.jul.2024 om 14:19 schreef olcott:
>>>> On 7/5/2024 3:32 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>> Op 04.jul.2024 om 22:18 schreef olcott:
>>>>>> On 7/4/2024 3:04 PM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>>>> Op 04.jul.2024 om 21:45 schreef olcott:
>>>>>>>> On 7/4/2024 2:40 PM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Op 04.jul.2024 om 21:30 schreef olcott:
>>>>>>>>>> On 7/4/2024 2:26 PM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I showed that HHH cannot possibly correctly simulate itself.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I proved otherwise, Liar.
>>>>>>>>>> https://liarparadox.org/HHH(DDD)_Full_Trace.pdf
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> No, this trace supports my claim. When we look at this trace we 
>>>>>>>>> see that 
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> HHH is simulating itself simulating DDD until it sees
>>>>>>>> that DDD is calling HHH in recursive simulation such
>>>>>>>> that neither the simulated DDD nor the simulated HHH
>>>>>>>> can possibly stop running unless HHH aborts its DDD.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The 'unless HHH aborts ...' is irrelevant and misleading, 
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not at all. Not in the least little bit.
>>>>>> A halt decider must PREDICT what its input would do.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes and when it must predict what a simulator that is programmed to 
>>>>> abort would do, it should predict that the it will abort and halt. 
>>>>> If it predicts something different, then it is incorrect.
>>>>> If it aborts and ignore that last part of the input, it is incorrect.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> When a bear is running at you to kill you it is not
>>>> enough that you only predict that you will shoot the
>>>> bear. You must actually shoot the bear or you will be killed.
>>>
>>> Exactly! Similarly, if a program is programmed to halt, the 
>>> simulation of it should not only predict that it will halt, but the 
>>> simulation must actually let it halt, as the simulated program is 
>>> programmed to do. HHH fails at both. Its prediction is incorrect and 
>>> its action is incorrect.
>>>
>>
>> You are either a liar or incompetent
> 
> I know you have problems recognizing the truth.
> 
>> when correctly emulated by HHH there
> 
> HHH cannot possibly correctly simulate itself.
> 
LIAR! I give up on you.
https://liarparadox.org/HHH(DDD)_Full_Trace.pdf

>> is no "letting" these functions halt.
> 
> That is indeed the failure of HHH. It cannot do what it must do.
> 
>>
>> void Infinite_Loop()
>> {
>>    HERE: goto HERE;
>> }
>>
>> void Infinite_Recursion()
>> {
>>    Infinite_Recursion();
>> }
>>
>> void DDD()
>> {
>>    HHH(DDD);
>> }
>>
>> int main()
>> {
>>    HHH(Infinite_Loop);
>>    HHH(Infinite_Recursion);
>>    HHH(DDD);
>> }
>>
> 
> 
> It seems you do not understand that a finite recursion will end.
> 
> void Finite_Recursion (int N) {
>    if (N > 0) Finite_Recursion (N - 1);
> }
> 
> In the same way, DDD, when correctly simulated, will end, as you have 
> shown. Only HHH cannot possibly correctly simulate itself up to its end. 
> That is why HHH cannot simulate DDD. That is not a property of DDD, but 
> a failure of HHH, which is unable to process the full input and aborts 
> before DDD reaches its end.
> 
> 

-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer