Path: ...!news.mixmin.net!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2024 16:10:43 +0200
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 101
Message-ID: <v68ut4$3ac9t$3@dont-email.me>
References: <v644pn$29t4h$3@dont-email.me> <v645v1$29pag$3@dont-email.me>
 <v646v5$2agfo$1@dont-email.me>
 <f01c00463608385b18dba3b5a945f5007e9b3c9e@i2pn2.org>
 <v68odk$39dkv$6@dont-email.me> <v68ovk$2n56v$6@dont-email.me>
 <v68r0u$39tml$1@dont-email.me>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2024 16:10:44 +0200 (CEST)
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="ec538ddb9ba28ab796787ff720ba0cb9";
	logging-data="3486013"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org";	posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19P9cKxXWOf1zq0OnWUcvz8"
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird
Cancel-Lock: sha1:KI8SleswtRGXm4qErgCAwlTBn2Y=
In-Reply-To: <v68r0u$39tml$1@dont-email.me>
Content-Language: en-GB
Bytes: 5200

Op 05.jul.2024 om 15:04 schreef olcott:
> On 7/5/2024 7:29 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>> Op 05.jul.2024 om 14:20 schreef olcott:
>>> On 7/5/2024 4:49 AM, joes wrote:
>>>> Am Wed, 03 Jul 2024 13:57:40 -0500 schrieb olcott:
>>>>> On 7/3/2024 1:40 PM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>>> Op 03.jul.2024 om 20:20 schreef olcott:
>>>>
>>>>>>> DDD correctly emulated by any element of the infinite set of every
>>>>>>> pure function HHH cannot possibly reach its own ret instruction and
>>>>>>> halt. That HHH aborts its emulation at some point or never aborts 
>>>>>>> its
>>>>>>> emulation cannot possibly change this.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ad hominem attacks always try to hide a lack of argumentation.
>>>>>> It has been proved that HHH cannot possibly correctly simulate 
>>>>>> itself.
>>>>>
>>>>> That is false and you know it. That might not be a flat out lie as 
>>>>> it is
>>>>> an sloppy use of language.
>>>>>
>>>>> HHH does correctly simulate itself simulating DDD one time, then it
>>>>> stops correctly simulating itself because this criteria is met:
>>>>>       HHH correctly simulates its input DDD until HHH correctly
>>>>>       determines that its simulated DDD would never stop running 
>>>>> unless
>>>>>       aborted
>>>> But it would stop running.
>>>
>>> Not if not aborted.
>>
>> If you knew a little bit of programming, you would know that a program 
>> that is programmed to abort and stop, will abort and stop, if not 
>> aborted.
> 
> I have two software engineering patents.
> HHH is a generic program that works on many different
> inputs thus it is not programmed to abort and stop.
> It is programmed according to this algorithm.

Apparently the algorithm is incorrect, because it does not recognize 
that the simulation of HHH would reach its end, if not aborted, because 
the simulated HHH aborts and returns.
HHH cannot possibly correctly simulate itself.

> 
> Unless you think that the #1 best selling author of theory
> of computation textbooks is wrong then I am correct.
> 
> <MIT Professor Sipser agreed to ONLY these verbatim words 10/13/2022>
>      If simulating halt decider H correctly simulates its input D
>      until H correctly determines that its simulated D would never
>      stop running unless aborted then
> 
>      H can abort its simulation of D and correctly report that D
>      specifies a non-halting sequence of configurations.
> </MIT Professor Sipser agreed to ONLY these verbatim words 10/13/2022>

You keep repeating irrelevant texts. Sipser agreed to a correct 
simulation, but I have shown that you simulation is incorrect.
HHH cannot possibly correctly simulate itself.
This is supported by your x86 code, for which you admit that the 
simulation cannot possibly reach its own 'ret'. Therefore, it is unable 
to fully process its input.
Additional evidence is in the trace you showed, where we see that, 
indeed, the simulation does not reach the 'ret' of its simulated self, 
but aborts prematurely.

void Finite_Recursion (int N) {
   if (N > 0) Finite_Recursion (N - 1);
}

There is no need to abort this program, even after several recursions.

> 
>> Dreaming of a program without abort is irrelevant, because HHH *does* 
>> abort.
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> So, the above code shows that the incorrect simulation of DDD by 
>>>>>> HHH is
>>>>>> unable to reach the 'ret' instruction, because it either never 
>>>>>> aborts,
>>>>>> or aborts one cycle too soon, when the simulated HHH is only one 
>>>>>> cycle
>>>>>> from its own abort and return and then the return of DDD would 
>>>>>> follow.
>>>>> The criteria is:
>>>>>       HHH simulates its input DDD until HHH
>>>>>       determines that its simulated DDD would never stop running 
>>>>> unless
>>>>>       aborted
>>>>> Richard always lies about this by making sure that he ever sees the 
>>>>> word
>>>>> UNTIL.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>