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From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory,sci.logic
Subject: Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Richard is a
 Liar?
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2024 19:26:47 -0500
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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On 7/6/2024 7:20 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
> On 7/6/24 7:54 PM, olcott wrote:
>> On 7/6/2024 6:30 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>> On 7/6/24 7:28 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>> On 7/6/2024 6:21 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>> On 7/6/24 7:09 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>> On 7/6/2024 5:49 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>> On 7/6/24 6:44 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 7/6/2024 5:23 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 7/6/24 6:20 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 7/6/2024 5:16 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/6/24 5:55 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/6/2024 4:51 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/6/24 5:40 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That requires HHH to report on what itself does before it 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> does this,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thus exactly the same you you never needing to buy 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> groceries once
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you decide that you will do this.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nope, because HHH is deterministic in behavior, 
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> It cannot report on the effect of what it did before it does 
>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>> otherwise we are back to you never needing to buy groceries as
>>>>>>>>>>>> soon as you decide to go buy them.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It MUST report on what it DOES. 
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Exactly. That means that it cannot report on the
>>>>>>>>>> effect of something that it has not yet done.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But all of its behavior comes into existance at once.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So you disagree with sequence, selection and iteration?
>>>>>>>> Might as well say that you don't believe in arithmetic
>>>>>>>> as your rebuttal to 2 + 3 = 5.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Why do you say that,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The program executes in sequence, but the BEHAVIOR, which the 
>>>>>>> execution REVEALS is instantaneously created by determinism.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> HHH must report on what it must do at a specific point in
>>>>>> the execution trace of its simulation of DDD.
>>>>>
>>>>> No
>>>>
>>>> HHH cannot report on the effect of what it would do before it
>>>> does this the same way that you cannot say that you don't need
>>>> groceries at the point in time that you would otherwise go to
>>>> the store to buy them.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> But it MUST, so you are just admitting that no such decider can exist.
>>>
>>
>> I am pointing out that you cannot correctly say that you don't
>> need groceries until AFTER you go to the store and buy them.
> 
> Right, because I am a willful being, and thus until I do, I am not 
> forced to do.
> 
>>
>> Pretending that everything happens all at once does not overcome
>> this. Trying to get away with pretending that sequence of sequence
>> selection and iteration does not exist is foolish.
> 
> Nope, because the program is deterministic, and thus all its future 
> behavior has be fixed and determined, and thus established.
> 
>>
>> (a) You determine that you need groceries
>> (b) You report this need
>> (c) then you go to the store to buy them
>>
>> (a) HHH determines that it needs to abort DDD
>> (b) HHH reports this this need (as text before the action)
>> (c) then HHH aborts DDD
>>
> 
> And I, being willful, am not FORCED to do that sequence. 

*It seems that you are simply too much of a liar*
You can already have the groceries that you just ran out
of before thinking that you need to go to the store or
going to the store.


-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer