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From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory,sci.logic
Subject: Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Richard is a Liar
 !!!
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2024 20:31:12 -0500
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On 7/6/2024 8:27 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
> On 7/6/24 8:58 PM, olcott wrote:
>> On 7/6/2024 7:50 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>> On 7/6/24 8:26 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>> On 7/6/2024 7:20 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>> On 7/6/24 7:54 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>> On 7/6/2024 6:30 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>> On 7/6/24 7:28 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 7/6/2024 6:21 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 7/6/24 7:09 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 7/6/2024 5:49 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/6/24 6:44 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/6/2024 5:23 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/6/24 6:20 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/6/2024 5:16 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/6/24 5:55 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/6/2024 4:51 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/6/24 5:40 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That requires HHH to report on what itself does before 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it does this,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thus exactly the same you you never needing to buy 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> groceries once
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you decide that you will do this.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nope, because HHH is deterministic in behavior, 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It cannot report on the effect of what it did before it 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> does this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> otherwise we are back to you never needing to buy 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> groceries as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> soon as you decide to go buy them.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It MUST report on what it DOES. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Exactly. That means that it cannot report on the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> effect of something that it has not yet done.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> But all of its behavior comes into existance at once.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> So you disagree with sequence, selection and iteration?
>>>>>>>>>>>> Might as well say that you don't believe in arithmetic
>>>>>>>>>>>> as your rebuttal to 2 + 3 = 5.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Why do you say that,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The program executes in sequence, but the BEHAVIOR, which the 
>>>>>>>>>>> execution REVEALS is instantaneously created by determinism.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> HHH must report on what it must do at a specific point in
>>>>>>>>>> the execution trace of its simulation of DDD.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> No
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> HHH cannot report on the effect of what it would do before it
>>>>>>>> does this the same way that you cannot say that you don't need
>>>>>>>> groceries at the point in time that you would otherwise go to
>>>>>>>> the store to buy them.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But it MUST, so you are just admitting that no such decider can 
>>>>>>> exist.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am pointing out that you cannot correctly say that you don't
>>>>>> need groceries until AFTER you go to the store and buy them.
>>>>>
>>>>> Right, because I am a willful being, and thus until I do, I am not 
>>>>> forced to do.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Pretending that everything happens all at once does not overcome
>>>>>> this. Trying to get away with pretending that sequence of sequence
>>>>>> selection and iteration does not exist is foolish.
>>>>>
>>>>> Nope, because the program is deterministic, and thus all its future 
>>>>> behavior has be fixed and determined, and thus established.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (a) You determine that you need groceries
>>>>>> (b) You report this need
>>>>>> (c) then you go to the store to buy them
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (a) HHH determines that it needs to abort DDD
>>>>>> (b) HHH reports this this need (as text before the action)
>>>>>> (c) then HHH aborts DDD
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> And I, being willful, am not FORCED to do that sequence. 
>>>>
>>>> *It seems that you are simply too much of a liar*
>>>> You can already have the groceries that you just ran out
>>>> of before thinking that you need to go to the store or
>>>> going to the store.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Nope.
>>>
>>
>> *Your problem seems to be that you are too much of a liar*
>>
>> You go to the store and buy groceries
>> then you lie and say that you need groceries
>> then you see that you bought the wrong ones
>>
>> You say that you need groceries without checking.
>> then you buy the wrong groceries because you did not check
>> then you see that you bought the wrong ones
>>
>>
> 
> Which is all just Red Herring, as I am not a program.
> 

You provided rhetoric instead of reasoning sufficiently
proving that you are a liar.

 >>>>> And I, being willful, am not FORCED to do that sequence.

Meaning that you can already have the groceries before you
went to the store to get them.

-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer