Path: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory,sci.logic
Subject: Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Ben's agreement
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2024 12:36:58 -0500
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 73
Message-ID: <v6h83q$vag9$1@dont-email.me>
References: <v644pn$29t4h$3@dont-email.me> <v65juc$2lui5$2@dont-email.me>
 <v665c9$2oun1$4@dont-email.me> <v66t0p$2n56v$1@dont-email.me>
 <v66t7p$2srk8$1@dont-email.me> <v66tql$2n56v$3@dont-email.me>
 <v66u56$2suut$1@dont-email.me> <v66v8i$2n56v$4@dont-email.me>
 <v67028$2t9el$1@dont-email.me> <v68b3f$2n56v$5@dont-email.me>
 <v68ocd$39dkv$5@dont-email.me> <v68pfo$2n56v$7@dont-email.me>
 <v68rnv$39tml$2@dont-email.me> <v68tvd$3ac9t$1@dont-email.me>
 <v68uj0$3ahel$1@dont-email.me> <v694k4$3bevk$1@dont-email.me>
 <v69502$3bh3f$1@dont-email.me> <v6b1k4$3odj5$1@dont-email.me>
 <v6bf7r$3qiio$2@dont-email.me> <v6bm5v$3rj8n$1@dont-email.me>
 <v6bmoe$3ri0l$2@dont-email.me> <v6bnt2$3rj8n$3@dont-email.me>
 <v6brfj$3skuk$2@dont-email.me> <v6c3vh$3ttem$1@dont-email.me>
 <v6c539$3u2mj$1@dont-email.me> <v6dda0$7s8u$1@dont-email.me>
 <v6e67v$bbcb$4@dont-email.me> <v6gss2$t87a$1@dont-email.me>
 <v6gv65$to0m$1@dont-email.me> <v6h2li$ud7p$1@dont-email.me>
 <v6h2rm$ue7s$1@dont-email.me> <v6h3cu$ud7p$2@dont-email.me>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2024 19:36:59 +0200 (CEST)
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="8e9286d680ce7523efb7696bf75a6d8f";
	logging-data="1026569"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org";	posting-account="U2FsdGVkX18OZK69OnBxKNDu433EqoOp"
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird
Cancel-Lock: sha1:BOi6lhe8eo8nN9igDwF1JVus90o=
Content-Language: en-US
In-Reply-To: <v6h3cu$ud7p$2@dont-email.me>
Bytes: 4435

On 7/8/2024 11:16 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
> Op 08.jul.2024 om 18:07 schreef olcott:
>> On 7/8/2024 11:04 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>> Op 08.jul.2024 om 17:04 schreef olcott:
>>>> On 7/8/2024 9:25 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>> Op 07.jul.2024 om 15:46 schreef olcott:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Correctly is measured by the semantics of the x86 language.
>>>>>> This specifies that when DDD is correctly simulated by HHH
>>>>>> calls emulated HHH(DDD) that this call cannot return.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes. This shows that the simulation is incorrect.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You smash a bottle on the ground. No matter how much you
>>>>>> want the bottle to hold water it will not hold water.
>>>>>
>>>>> Similarly, HHH cannot possibly simulate itself correctly, no matter 
>>>>> how much you want it to be correct, 
>>>>
>>>> Where correct is understood to be what-ever-the-Hell that the
>>>> machine code of DDD specifies within the semantics of the x86
>>>> language then:
>>>>
>>>> When DDD is correctly simulated by any pure function x86 emulator
>>>> HHH that aborts its emulation at some point calls HHH(DDD) then
>>>> it is correctly understood that this call cannot possibly return.
>>>> The proof of this is something like mathematical induction.
>>>>
>>>> When DDD is correctly emulated by any HHH that aborts
>>>> its emulation after N repetitions:
>>>> (1) DDD is correctly emulated by HHH
>>>
>>> But only the first part is simulated, not the full input. The 
>>> simulation must simulate the full input. It will will only become 
>>> correct if also the other behaviour of HHH is simulated. But HHH is 
>>> unable to simulate itself up to that point.
>>> That is what the x86 code specifies.
>>>
>>>> (2) that calls an emulated HHH(DDD) that
>>>> (3) emulates another DDD... goto (2) or abort
>>>
>>> And when it aborts, it is one cycle to soon.
>>
>> Try to show how infinity is one cycle too soon.
>>
> You believe that two equals infinity. 

void Infinite_Loop()
{
   HERE: goto HERE;
}

void Infinite_Recursion()
{
   Infinite_Recursion();
}

void DDD()
{
   HHH(DDD);
}

Two cycles is enough to correctly determine that none
of the above functions correctly emulated by HHH can
possibly halt.

That you don't see this is ignorance or deception.

-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer