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From: AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: RE: Re: Disc brake maintenance tips
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2024 16:29:08 -0500
Organization: Yellow Jersey, Ltd.
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On 7/8/2024 11:46 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Tue Jul 2 11:51:53 2024 Zen Cycle  wrote:
>> On 7/2/2024 9:31 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>> On 7/2/2024 7:54 AM, Zen Cycle wrote:
>>>>> Tom Kunich <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Another little old lady comment from Krygowski. To shift downtube
>>>>>> shifters you have to pause pedalling.
>>>>
>>>> Oh fer fucks sake....yeah, that's great advice....'pause pedaling
>>>> while shifting'....wow, what a fucking moron.
>>>>
>>>>>> This causes the man behind you with
>>>>>> brifters to run into the back of you as you suddenly slow down.
>>>>
>>>> Not if they're paying attention, and it wouldn't have been any
>>>> different if the guy behind had downtube shifters.
>>>>
>>>>>> They did
>>>>>> have 10 speed downtube shifters. Since they were lighter than brifters
>>>>>> why did not some pro's with the emphasis on lighter and lighter
>>>>>> weight use them?
>>>>
>>>> I don't recall any manufacturer marketing 10sp index down tube
>>>> shifters. I'll concede I may just never have noticed, but the question
>>>> about they the pro's would never use them is a really stupid strawman
>>>> argument.
>>>>
>>>> First off, dipshit, You don't have to change cadence/power any
>>>> more/less with down tube shifters than with integrated shifters.
>>>>
>>>> Second, It's the dynamic of being forced to sit that affects cadence
>>>> and power. With downtube shifters you pretty much are forced to sit to
>>>> shift. The reason pros don't use downtube shifters is that the ability
>>>> to respond quickly and shift while out of the saddle trumps the weight
>>>> savings. FWIW - some people who compete in hill climb events (e.g.
>>>> https://bumpshillclimb.com/) do often still use downtube shifters for
>>>> the weight savings. Many riders also use a single chain ring and a
>>>> single brake (UCI rules don't apply to those races).
>>>>
>>>>>> Day after day you have not added one thing to the group except stupid
>>>>>> statement after stupid statement.
>>>>
>>>> oh, you mean like " To shift downtube shifters you have to pause
>>>> pedalling." ? Oh, wait, that was you.
>>>>
>>>>>> Jobst's bike was 66 cm and made from 1" rather low grade steel compared
>>>>>> to what is available today.
>>>>
>>>> You have no fucking clue what Jobst rode. A rider of his caliber was
>>>> most likely riding at least something along the lines of Columbus SL,
>>>> which in the hands of a competent builder is a stiff as any steel
>>>> frame made today. There have been numerous discussions in this forum
>>>> about blind tests of steel bikes built with different grades of tubing
>>>> where the winner was more often than not the lower grade tubing.
>>>>
>>>>>> It was unbelievably flexy and with old
>>>>>> downtube shifters and I think it a miracle that he could keep it
>>>>>> upright
>>>>>> when going around turns it would start flexing the frame and wheels (36
>>>>>> spoke) and he would have to counter steer it to keep it going in the
>>>>>> direction he wanted it to go.
>>>>
>>>> Unless you rode it - which we know you never did - you have no fucking
>>>> clue how flexy it was or what it took to control it. FFS kunich, Day
>>>> after day you have not added one thing to the group except stupid
>>>> statement after stupid statement.
>>>>
>>>> Tell us again how your shifting improved after you got special
>>>> campagnolo non-stretch shifter cables?
>>>>
>>>>>> But you have never had experiences like that. Not that that is a
>>>>>> negative
>>>>>> - riding within your pesonal and bike selection's capabilities - but
>>>>>> why
>>>>>> do you pretend to give advice on these subjects?
>>>>
>>>> oh, you mean like " To shift downtube shifters you have to pause
>>>> pedalling." ? Oh, wait, that was you.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Campagnolo and Shimano offered bar end Ten shifters which can be mounted
>>> on DT shift bosses. We've installed a handful of each (vs hundreds of
>>> Ergo/STi). An outlier format but not zero.
>>
>> When I converted my TT bike from Ultegra 10sp to Sram 11sp I kind of
>> noticed that the ultegra shifters looked suspiciously like a down-tube
>> shifter when I took it off the bar-end mount, but I never tried it. That
>> said, was down-tube mounting shown in any of the literature? I only
>> remember them being aimed at the TT bar-end application
>>
>> -- 
>> Add xx to reply
>>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Until the advent of electronic shifting, bar end shifters on TT bikes were the older downtube shifters modified to the newer numbers of speeds. Usually there was too much flex in the cables and you had to jolly well get up to the top gear as rapidly as possible where the system was set to hold the gear. Now they are simply electronic buttons.
> 
> Or you can believe that a man who uses bar end shifters on road bars and rides a freewheel 6 speed is really knowledgeable about 12 speed Brifters.
> 
> At least Flunky rides modern bikes with modern groups on them and invariably has completely different opinions than Krygowski and Liebermann but rarely points that out. That's a shame because it makes him seem like he is agreeing with them.

Gear wires are not flexible.

Before modern linear gear casing, spiral casing did have too 
much hysteresis for index systems beyond six speeds.  That 
changed 35 years ago.
-- 
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971