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From: "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Ben's agreement
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2024 16:11:42 +0200
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Op 10.jul.2024 om 15:37 schreef olcott:
> On 7/10/2024 2:18 AM, Mikko wrote:
>> On 2024-07-09 14:14:16 +0000, olcott said:
>>
>>> On 7/9/2024 1:14 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>> On 2024-07-08 17:36:58 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>
>>>>> On 7/8/2024 11:16 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>>> Op 08.jul.2024 om 18:07 schreef olcott:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Try to show how infinity is one cycle too soon.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> You believe that two equals infinity.
>>>>>
>>>>> void Infinite_Loop()
>>>>> {
>>>>>    HERE: goto HERE;
>>>>> }
>>>>>
>>>>> void Infinite_Recursion()
>>>>> {
>>>>>    Infinite_Recursion();
>>>>> }
>>>>>
>>>>> void DDD()
>>>>> {
>>>>>    HHH(DDD);
>>>>> }
>>>>>
>>>>> Two cycles is enough to correctly determine that none
>>>>> of the above functions correctly emulated by HHH can
>>>>> possibly halt.
>>>>>
>>>>> That you don't see this is ignorance or deception.
>>>>
>>>> There is an important detail that determines whether an infinite
>>>> execution can be inferred. That is best illustrated by the following
>>>> examples:
>>>>
>>>> void Finite_Loop()
>>>> {
>>>>   int x = 10000;
>>>> HERE:
>>>>   if (x > 0) {
>>>>     x--;
>>>>     goto HERE;
>>>>   }
>>>> }
>>>>
>>>> void Finite_Recursion(int n)
>>>> {
>>>>   if (n > 0) {
>>>>     Finite_Recursion(n + 1);
>>>>   }
>>>> }
>>>>
>>>> void DDD()
>>>> {
>>>>   HHH(DDD); // HHH detects recursive simulation and then simulates 
>>>> no more
>>>> }
>>>>
>>>> The important difference is that in my examples there is a conditional
>>>> instruction that can (and does) prevent infinite exectuion.
>>>>
>>>
>>> When we ask:
>>> Does the call from DDD emulated by HHH to HHH(DDD) return?
>>
>> Why would anyone ask that? A question should make clear its topic.
>> Instead one could ask whether HHH can fully emulate DDD if that is
>> what one wants to know. Or one may think that HHH and DDD are so
>> unimteresting that there is no point to ask anyting about them.
>>
> 
> A correct emulator can correctly any correct x86 instructions.
> When it emulates non-halting code then itself does not halt.
> 

But when simulating a halting code, it is incorrect to abort the 
simulation halfway, even when you dream of another non-halting code. 
Such dreams are irrelevant.