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From: Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.lang.c
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re:_technology_discussion_=e2=86=92_does_the_world_need_a?=
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Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2024 15:22:29 +0200
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On 12.07.2024 13:21, bart wrote:
> On 12/07/2024 12:12, Janis Papanagnou wrote:
>> On 12.07.2024 08:00, David Brown wrote:
>>> [...]
>>>
>>> I can understand when someone new to C gets mixed up about how arrays
>>> work.
>>
>> I can't understand that if I presume that the person has read any
>> basic textbook about "C".
>>
>>> I don't understand how someone can remain so stubbornly confused
>>> when they have been told how C /actually/ works.
>>
>> Especially if the one has said to have written an own language that
>> is close enough to "C" where I'd expect the knowledge to be there
>> already before that person is designing and implementing his project.
>>
>> I wonder why he refuses to look up things if he thinks that all the
>> experts here are wrong about a well documented fact.
> 
> If you had to describe to someone how a function accesses array data in
> its caller, what would you say?

I would explain it as it is, in a way similar to what was already
written in this thread. (It had been formulated repeatedly and I
will not repeat it again.)

Someone here (don't recall who it was) already had provided a good
post about how difficult it gets if you build your argument around
an inappropriate model.

> 
> It's clearly not by value. It's apparently not by reference. You can't
> get away with saying they are not passed, as clearly functions *can*
> access array data via parameters.

To explain it to newbies I'd abstain from using parameter-passing
terms at all; and especially in "C" that's simple because you have
just one mechanism, so you don't need to mention it to distinguish
it from any other mechanisms [that exist in other languages].

I'd just explain what happens if you write  f(int a[]) and - since
the pointers are so basic a concept in "C" - I'd likely explain it
in terms of  f(int * p) .

> 
> Or would you merely refer to the relevant section in the language
> reference?

If you mean the standards' documents; no. I don't think that such
documents are good for learning or explaining a language. But they
help to get formal certainty about facts; useful for experts like
the ones here in this group (and certainly not excluding you).

> Just curious.

Fair enough.

Janis