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Path: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> Newsgroups: comp.theory Subject: Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true? Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2024 11:37:29 +0300 Organization: - Lines: 34 Message-ID: <v72n49$kfho$1@dont-email.me> References: <v6un9t$3nufp$1@dont-email.me> <v7013v$2ccv$1@dont-email.me> <v70nt7$61d8$6@dont-email.me> <58fc6559638120b31e128fe97b5e955248afe218@i2pn2.org> <v71mjh$bp3i$1@dont-email.me> <1173a460ee95e0ca82c08abecdefc80ba86646ac@i2pn2.org> <v71okl$bvm2$1@dont-email.me> <5f6daf68f1b4ffac854d239282bc811b5b806659@i2pn2.org> <v71ttb$crk4$1@dont-email.me> <60e7a93cb8cec0afb68b3e40a0e82e9d63fa8e2a@i2pn2.org> <v725p4$hlvg$2@dont-email.me> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2024 10:37:30 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="eb7bc3c094cc39ab136406329ffd9913"; logging-data="671288"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+ObRZ9z4wNA2kW+PxzMzAy" User-Agent: Unison/2.2 Cancel-Lock: sha1:teZeYr6ioex0ClYnWmdn2O1Rpp8= Bytes: 2780 On 2024-07-15 03:41:24 +0000, olcott said: > On 7/14/2024 9:04 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >> On 7/14/24 9:27 PM, olcott wrote: >>> >>> Any input that must be aborted to prevent the non termination >>> of simulating termination analyzer HHH necessarily specifies >>> non-halting behavior or it would never need to be aborted. >> >> Excpet, as I have shown, it doesn't. >> >> Your problem is you keep on ILEGALLY changing the input in your >> argument because you have misdefined what the input is. >> >> The input to HHH is ALL of the memory that it would be accessed in a >> correct simulation of DDD, which includes all the codd of HHH, and >> thus, if you change HHH you get a different input. >> >> If you want to try to claim the input is just the bytes of the function >> DDD proper then you are just admitting that you are nothing more than a >> lying idiot that doesn't understand the problem, > Turing machines only operate on finite strings they do > not operate on other Turing machines *dumbo* That's right. But the finite string can be a description of a Turing machine. That way a Turing machine can say someting about another Turing machine, even simulate its complete execution. Or it can count something simple like the number of states or the set of symbols that the described Turing machine may write but not erase. But there are questions that no Turing machine can answer from a description of another Turing machine. -- Mikko