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From: Rolf Mantel <news@hartig-mantel.de>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: New Bike Path
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2024 12:47:21 +0200
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Am 12.07.2024 um 23:19 schrieb Roger Merriman:
> Rolf Mantel <news@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:
>> Am 11.07.2024 um 20:05 schrieb Roger Merriman:
>>> Rolf Mantel <news@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:
>>>> Am 11.07.2024 um 14:35 schrieb Catrike Ryder:
>>>>> On Thu, 11 Jul 2024 12:05:21 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Wed, 10 Jul 2024 22:09:22 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> The last segment of the Good Neighbor Trail (18 miles) though
>>>>>>>>> Brooksville and on to Spring Hill along state hwy 50 has been
>>>>>>>>> completed.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Is it well used?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It just opened.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> True though some places have obvious demand or are being used already by
>>>>>> some folks already London Embankment was one such example.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In my experience though my commute is down similar if much
>>>>>>>> older, cycleways next to big roads that tend to be bypasses and so tend not
>>>>>>>> to be the shortest distance tend to be lightly used, ie have multiple old
>>>>>>>> cycle ways alongside big major roads.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Suncoast trail where I most often ride get's lots of use.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is that parallel to a highway? Or more in the woods?
>>>>>
>>>>> It's parallel to a limited access highway of the same name, but it's
>>>>> totally separated from vehicular traffic by cyclone fense and also
>>>>> most places 30 or more feet of grass.
>>>>
>>>> Parallel and separated to a "limited access highway" is safe for a
>>>> bi-directional bike facility.
>>>>
>>>> Parallel to a highway with with property access every 50 yards is
>>>> extremely dangerous for a bi-directional bike facility (especially when
>>>> having to cross popular driveways for car parks or drive-in restaurants).
>>>>
>>> As ever never say never though certainly the one I have most experience of,
>>> works fine has various side roads and so as you’d expect for a high street.
>>>
>>> And really isn’t a problem or lessen’s the segregated nature of it, my only
>>> “complaint” is the stop start nature of it but that’s the nature of high
>>> streets, and being spoiled by the Embankment and stuff like my commute
>>> where you can bypass a lot of junctions and so can just crack on.
>>
>> Simple example:
>> <https://maps.app.goo.gl/BGWVX2amE4CwLM3R9>
>>
>> The bike route follows parallel to the railway line; at the bottom of
>> the picture it crosses the main road via traffic lights.
>> The bike route is used by 4,000 cyclists on a normal day.
> 
> That broadly similar in numbers to Chiswick Highroad which has since the
> cycleway seen quite a huge increase in numbers.
>>
>> At the place where you see the van leaving the fuel station, I have
>> twice witnessed exactly the same accident: a car from the roundabout
>> wanted to enter the fuel station and did not look for cyclists coming
>> "the wrong direction" hit a cyclist at low speed.
> 
> Then probably needs to be light controlled or similar? Chiswick Highroad
> ends at least at the eastern end at Hammersmith gyratory, large multi lane
> light controlled roundabout with a bus station and shopping center in the
> middle, very much older car centric design.
> 
> So they have given cyclists kerb protection and traffic lights, it’s
> another area that used to only see the brave but is now is heaving with
> cyclists.
> 
> https://maps.app.goo.gl/pkjGNC3mKQHqAZBY7?g_st=ic
> 
>>
>> One week after I explained to my then 10-year old daughter the dangers
>> of this bike route, we saw this: the cyclist 5m ahead of us was rammed
>> and fell over; luckily she did not seem to be hurt.
>
> Ie that a cycle infrastructure is crap is well doesn’t mean it all is just
> means that one is.
> 
> And a cycleway across a petrol station forecourt really is!

Not "across a station forecourt" but "on the footpath (sidewalk) 
separating a petrol station from the road".
The same is true for drive-in eateries (Mc Donald's etc),
<https://maps.app.goo.gl/pamGMiPsFGuRHgc76>
major supermarket car parks
<https://maps.app.goo.gl/BgFd8qici8xwoPjv6>

Basically, in town there is no way to build a safe bidirectional cycleway.