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From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2024 08:30:07 -0500
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On 7/17/2024 2:49 AM, Mikko wrote:
> On 2024-07-16 14:20:09 +0000, olcott said:
> 
>> On 7/16/2024 3:32 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>> On 2024-07-15 13:26:22 +0000, olcott said:
>>>
>>>> On 7/15/2024 3:23 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-07-14 14:38:31 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 7/14/2024 3:09 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2024-07-13 20:15:56 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> typedef void (*ptr)();
>>>>>>>> int HHH(ptr P);
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> void Infinite_Loop()
>>>>>>>> {
>>>>>>>>    HERE: goto HERE;
>>>>>>>> }
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> void Infinite_Recursion()
>>>>>>>> {
>>>>>>>>    Infinite_Recursion();
>>>>>>>> }
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> void DDD()
>>>>>>>> {
>>>>>>>>    HHH(DDD);
>>>>>>>> }
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> int main()
>>>>>>>> {
>>>>>>>>    HHH(Infinite_Loop);
>>>>>>>>    HHH(Infinite_Recursion);
>>>>>>>>    HHH(DDD);
>>>>>>>> }
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Any input that must be aborted to prevent the non
>>>>>>>> termination of HHH necessarily specifies non-halting
>>>>>>>> behavior or it would never need to be aborted.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Everyone understands that DDD specifies a halting behaviour if 
>>>>>>> HHH(DDD) does,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *You can comprehend this is a truism or fail to*
>>>>>> *comprehend it disagreement is necessarily incorrect*
>>>>>> Any input that must be aborted to prevent the non
>>>>>> termination of HHH necessarily specifies non-halting
>>>>>> behavior or it would never need to be aborted.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Disagreeing with the above is analogous to disagreeing
>>>>>> with arithmetic.
>>>>>
>>>>> That the input is aborted does not mean that the input must be 
>>>>> aborted.
>>>>
>>>> Weasel words. This is an axiom:
>>>> Input XXX must be aborted to prevent the non-termination of HHH.
>>>
>>> That is not an acceptable axiom. That you are unable to prove that
>>> either XXX is aborted or HHH does not terminate is insufficient
>>> reason to call it an axiom.
>>>
>>
>> *Premise* (assumed to be true)
>> Any input that must be aborted to prevent
>> the non termination of HHH
>>
>> *Logically entailed by the above premise*
>> necessarily specifies non-halting behavior or
>> it would never need to be aborted.
> 
> No, it is not. Both "need to be" and "must be" are different from "is".
> The correct asxiom is "If the program can be executed to its halting in
> a finite time then the program specifies a halting behaviour."
> 
>>>> From the fact that XXX must be aborted we can conclude that XXX must 
>>>> be aborted.
>>>
>>> Nothing that contains the word "must" is a fact.
>>>
>>
>> When simulated input X stops running {if and only if}
>> the simulation of this input X has been aborted this
>> necessitates that input X specifies non-halting behavior.
> 
> Nothing that contains the word "necessitates" is a fact, either.
> Perhaps you should learn some philosophy.
> 

<MIT Professor Sipser agreed to ONLY these verbatim words 10/13/2022>
     If simulating halt decider H correctly simulates its input D
     until H correctly determines that its simulated D would never
     stop running unless aborted then

     H can abort its simulation of D and correctly report that D
     specifies a non-halting sequence of configurations.
</MIT Professor Sipser agreed to ONLY these verbatim words 10/13/2022>

_DDD()
[00002163] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping
[00002164] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping
[00002166] 6863210000 push 00002163 ; push DDD
[0000216b] e853f4ffff call 000015c3 ; call HHH(DDD)
[00002170] 83c404     add esp,+04
[00002173] 5d         pop ebp
[00002174] c3         ret
Size in bytes:(0018) [00002174]

DDD emulated by HHH according to the semantic meaning of
its x86 instructions never stops running unless aborted.

-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer