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From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2024 12:20:43 -0500
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On 7/17/2024 12:16 PM, joes wrote:
> Am Wed, 17 Jul 2024 08:27:08 -0500 schrieb olcott:
>> On 7/17/2024 2:43 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>> On 2024-07-16 18:24:49 +0000, olcott said:
>>>> On 7/16/2024 3:12 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-07-15 02:33:28 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>> On 7/14/2024 9:04 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>> On 7/14/24 9:27 PM, olcott wrote:
> 
>>>>> You have already said that a decider is not allowed to answer
>>>>> anything other than its input. Now you say that the the program at
>>>>> 15c3 is not a part of the input. Therefore a decider is not allowed
>>>>> consider it even to the extent to decide whether it ever returns. But
>>>>> without that knowledge it is not possible to determine whether DDD
>>>>> halts.
>>>>>
>>>> It maps the finite string 558bec6863210000e853f4ffff83c4045dc3 to
>>>> non-halting behavior because this finite string calls HHH(DDD)
>>>> in recursive simulation.
> That string is meaningless outside of the execution environment of HHH,
> specifically the simulation of DDD it is doing. It does not encode
> anything, DDD does not have access to that address. That string
> doesn't call anything, the program in HHH's memory space does.
> Ceterum censeo that HHH halts.
>>> That mapping is not a part of the finite string and not a part of the
>>> problem specification.
>> decider/input pairs <are> a key element of the specification.
> 
>>> The finite string does not reveal what is the effect of calling
>>> whatever that address happens to contain.
>> A simulating termination analyzer proves this.
>>
>>> The behaviour of HHH is specified outside of the input. Therefore your
>>> "decider" decides about a non-input, which you said is not allowed.
>> HHH is not allowed to report on the behavior of it actual self in its
>> own directly executed process. HHH is allowed to report on the effect of
>> the behavior of the simulation of itself simulating DDD.

> HHH must report on itself if its input calls it.
> HHH does not directly simulate itself, it just executes.
> It reports on DDD by simulating it.
> 

Its input cannot call its actual self that exists
in an entirely different process.

-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer