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From: AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: guns again.
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2024 12:57:15 -0500
Organization: Yellow Jersey, Ltd.
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On 7/17/2024 11:16 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 7/17/2024 11:22 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 7/17/2024 10:03 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>> On 7/17/2024 9:38 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>> On 7/16/2024 8:57 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>> On 7/16/2024 8:48 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yet more proof that Frankie doesn't know what he is 
>>>>>> talking about. A
>>>>>> shotgun fires a spray of pellets and certainly 
>>>>>> wouldn't be the best
>>>>>> choice in a case where the "Bad Guys" are close to the 
>>>>>> victims as
>>>>>> seems very likely in the above reference.
>>>>>
>>>>> Argue with Andrew about that. He was the one who 
>>>>> originally posted that a shotgun would be much better 
>>>>> for home defense than an AR.
>>>>>
>>>>> Beyond that, I disagree with you on the applicability 
>>>>> of a shotgun to these specific cases. But again, I'll 
>>>>> let Andrew explain, if he cares to.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> As with concurrent discussions, 'optimal', 'adequate' 
>>>> and 'best' are inherently subjective.
>>>
>>> Sorry, I have to disagree with that idea, at least in 
>>> general.
>>>
>>> There are issues like, hairstyles, portrait paintings, 
>>> pop music, car colors etc. where judgments are very 
>>> subjective. People like what they like.
>>>
>>> There are other issues like treatment of disease, bike 
>>> maintenance techniques, and (I submit) home defense, 
>>> where it is or should be possible to gather real world 
>>> data and determine relative effectiveness.
>>>
>>
>> You don't know what you don't know. Opinion notwithstanding.
>>
>> You mention disease treatment.  If a guy has a prostate 
>> cancer diagnosis, there are widely divergent treatments 
>> available, each with their own adherents and detractors 
>> based on deleterious side effects, expense, efficacy etc. 
>> Not doing anything whatsoever can often get another twenty 
>> years before dying of something else. Everyone disagrees, 
>> including the various experts, and no one is wrong about 
>> their opinion (based on their own weighting of some or all 
>> criteria).
> 
> Of course there are still areas of disagreement, especially 
> in prostate cancer treatment, where "to treat or not to 
> treat" is a legitimate question.
> 
> But let's look instead at something like, oh, bloodletting, 
> which was once used for dozens of ailments. Or "Bach Flower 
> Remedies," long a favorite joke of Wolfgang, in which people 
> ... what? Smell various flowers to cure diseases? Or 
> Homeopathy, where roughly one "active ingredient" molecule 
> in a billion cures disease.
> 
> Some medical treatments work wonderfully. Some treatments 
> work well a certain percentage of the time. Some treatments 
> do not work, despite the heartfelt beliefs of their 
> proponents - or perhaps, their salesmen.
> 
> Intelligent people don't say "Well, it's all a matter of 
> opinion." Intelligent people rationally evaluate data. That 
> should be true for home defense.
> 

Noting the extreme range of recommended firearms in link 
provided (and similar in many other 'best of'), intelligent 
_and informed, experienced_ people do indeed disagree.

There are problem areas with enough chaotic factors to defy 
a single solution as a universal answer.
-- 
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971