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Path: ...!weretis.net!feeder9.news.weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> Newsgroups: comp.theory Subject: Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true? Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2024 09:41:47 -0500 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 66 Message-ID: <v7dtvc$30pvh$7@dont-email.me> References: <v6un9t$3nufp$1@dont-email.me> <v7013v$2ccv$1@dont-email.me> <v70nt7$61d8$6@dont-email.me> <58fc6559638120b31e128fe97b5e955248afe218@i2pn2.org> <v71mjh$bp3i$1@dont-email.me> <1173a460ee95e0ca82c08abecdefc80ba86646ac@i2pn2.org> <v71okl$bvm2$1@dont-email.me> <5f6daf68f1b4ffac854d239282bc811b5b806659@i2pn2.org> <v71ttb$crk4$1@dont-email.me> <60e7a93cb8cec0afb68b3e40a0e82e9d63fa8e2a@i2pn2.org> <v725p4$hlvg$2@dont-email.me> <v72n49$kfho$1@dont-email.me> <v739gj$mjis$18@dont-email.me> <d8b0e6093be2a1874464d11a7c38720bac7917a8@i2pn2.org> <v742dl$s48s$1@dont-email.me> <v75agu$16efu$1@dont-email.me> <v76e2n$1cf96$5@dont-email.me> <v7da0a$2ts8o$1@dont-email.me> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2024 16:41:48 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="806954090dbe9e2c0be16c7a3e599476"; logging-data="3172337"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19czeiRVOqjK1ZIwVzVPF92" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cancel-Lock: sha1:0v+Y6t0Y6oXaVCpAaSTDbLXPjec= Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: <v7da0a$2ts8o$1@dont-email.me> Bytes: 4491 On 7/19/2024 4:00 AM, Mikko wrote: > On 2024-07-16 18:27:35 +0000, olcott said: > >> On 7/16/2024 3:20 AM, Mikko wrote: >>> On 2024-07-15 20:56:21 +0000, olcott said: >>> >>>> On 7/15/2024 3:51 PM, joes wrote: >>>>> Am Mon, 15 Jul 2024 08:51:14 -0500 schrieb olcott: >>>>>> On 7/15/2024 3:37 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>> On 2024-07-15 03:41:24 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>> On 7/14/2024 9:04 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>> On 7/14/24 9:27 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Any input that must be aborted to prevent the non termination of >>>>>>>>>> simulating termination analyzer HHH necessarily specifies >>>>>>>>>> non-halting behavior or it would never need to be aborted. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Excpet, as I have shown, it doesn't. >>>>>>>>> Your problem is you keep on ILEGALLY changing the input in your >>>>>>>>> argument because you have misdefined what the input is. >>>>>>>>> The input to HHH is ALL of the memory that it would be accessed >>>>>>>>> in a >>>>>>>>> correct simulation of DDD, which includes all the codd of HHH, and >>>>>>>>> thus, if you change HHH you get a different input. >>>>>>>>> If you want to try to claim the input is just the bytes of the >>>>>>>>> function DDD proper then you are just admitting that you are >>>>>>>>> nothing >>>>>>>>> more than a lying idiot that doesn't understand the problem, >>>>>>>> Turing machines only operate on finite strings they do not >>>>>>>> operate on >>>>>>>> other Turing machines *dumbo* >>>>>>> >>>>>>> That's right. But the finite string can be a description of a Turing >>>>>>> machine. >>>>>> No that is wrong. The finite string must encode a Turing machine. >>>>> Same difference. >>>>> >>>> >>>> Not at all. The huge mistake of all these years is that >>>> people stupidly expected that HHH to report on the behavior >>>> of its own executing Turing machine. >>> >>> No, the error is that HHH report on its own behavour instead of the >>> behaviour specified by its inputs. Nobody expects that your programs >>> do anything interesting or useful. >>> >> >> HHH computes the mapping from this finite string: >> 558bec6863210000e853f4ffff83c4045dc3 >> to non-halting behavior because this finite string >> calls HHH(DDD) in recursive simulation. > > But it does not compute any interesting mapping. You cannot even specify > the mapping wiohout a reference to HHH. > > You cannot even specify the mapping wiohout a reference to HHH. Of course I can't. I am not so ridiculously stupid to believe that we can just ignore the fact that DDD does call HHH(DDD) in recursive simulation. -- Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer