Path: ...!weretis.net!feeder9.news.weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?
Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2024 09:41:47 -0500
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 66
Message-ID: <v7dtvc$30pvh$7@dont-email.me>
References: <v6un9t$3nufp$1@dont-email.me> <v7013v$2ccv$1@dont-email.me>
 <v70nt7$61d8$6@dont-email.me>
 <58fc6559638120b31e128fe97b5e955248afe218@i2pn2.org>
 <v71mjh$bp3i$1@dont-email.me>
 <1173a460ee95e0ca82c08abecdefc80ba86646ac@i2pn2.org>
 <v71okl$bvm2$1@dont-email.me>
 <5f6daf68f1b4ffac854d239282bc811b5b806659@i2pn2.org>
 <v71ttb$crk4$1@dont-email.me>
 <60e7a93cb8cec0afb68b3e40a0e82e9d63fa8e2a@i2pn2.org>
 <v725p4$hlvg$2@dont-email.me> <v72n49$kfho$1@dont-email.me>
 <v739gj$mjis$18@dont-email.me>
 <d8b0e6093be2a1874464d11a7c38720bac7917a8@i2pn2.org>
 <v742dl$s48s$1@dont-email.me> <v75agu$16efu$1@dont-email.me>
 <v76e2n$1cf96$5@dont-email.me> <v7da0a$2ts8o$1@dont-email.me>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2024 16:41:48 +0200 (CEST)
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="806954090dbe9e2c0be16c7a3e599476";
	logging-data="3172337"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org";	posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19czeiRVOqjK1ZIwVzVPF92"
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird
Cancel-Lock: sha1:0v+Y6t0Y6oXaVCpAaSTDbLXPjec=
Content-Language: en-US
In-Reply-To: <v7da0a$2ts8o$1@dont-email.me>
Bytes: 4491

On 7/19/2024 4:00 AM, Mikko wrote:
> On 2024-07-16 18:27:35 +0000, olcott said:
> 
>> On 7/16/2024 3:20 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>> On 2024-07-15 20:56:21 +0000, olcott said:
>>>
>>>> On 7/15/2024 3:51 PM, joes wrote:
>>>>> Am Mon, 15 Jul 2024 08:51:14 -0500 schrieb olcott:
>>>>>> On 7/15/2024 3:37 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2024-07-15 03:41:24 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>>> On 7/14/2024 9:04 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 7/14/24 9:27 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Any input that must be aborted to prevent the non termination of
>>>>>>>>>> simulating termination analyzer HHH necessarily specifies
>>>>>>>>>> non-halting behavior or it would never need to be aborted.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Excpet, as I have shown, it doesn't.
>>>>>>>>> Your problem is you keep on ILEGALLY changing the input in your
>>>>>>>>> argument because you have misdefined what the input is.
>>>>>>>>> The input to HHH is ALL of the memory that it would be accessed 
>>>>>>>>> in a
>>>>>>>>> correct simulation of DDD, which includes all the codd of HHH, and
>>>>>>>>> thus, if you change HHH you get a different input.
>>>>>>>>> If you want to try to claim the input is just the bytes of the
>>>>>>>>> function DDD proper then you are just admitting that you are 
>>>>>>>>> nothing
>>>>>>>>> more than a lying idiot that doesn't understand the problem,
>>>>>>>> Turing machines only operate on finite strings they do not 
>>>>>>>> operate on
>>>>>>>> other Turing machines *dumbo*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's right. But the finite string can be a description of a Turing
>>>>>>> machine.
>>>>>> No that is wrong. The finite string must encode a Turing machine.
>>>>> Same difference.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Not at all. The huge mistake of all these years is that
>>>> people stupidly expected that HHH to report on the behavior
>>>> of its own executing Turing machine.
>>>
>>> No, the error is that HHH report on its own behavour instead of the
>>> behaviour specified by its inputs. Nobody expects that your programs
>>> do anything interesting or useful.
>>>
>>
>> HHH computes the mapping from this finite string: 
>> 558bec6863210000e853f4ffff83c4045dc3
>> to non-halting behavior because this finite string
>> calls HHH(DDD) in recursive simulation.
> 
> But it does not compute any interesting mapping. You cannot even specify
> the mapping wiohout a reference to HHH.
> 

 > You cannot even specify the mapping wiohout a reference to HHH.
Of course I can't. I am not so ridiculously stupid to believe
that we can just ignore the fact that DDD does call HHH(DDD) in
recursive simulation.


-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer