Path: ...!news.mixmin.net!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: DDD correctly emulated by HHH is Correctly rejected as non-halting V2
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2024 11:21:29 +0300
Organization: -
Lines: 66
Message-ID: <v7fs29$3f4g7$1@dont-email.me>
References: <v6rg65$32o1o$3@dont-email.me> <091e8b7baeea467ee894b1c79c8943cb9773adb7@i2pn2.org> <v6u346$3khl8$1@dont-email.me> <16ac79611a441e7e01119631051f69119eee958a@i2pn2.org> <v6v06i$3pivt$1@dont-email.me> <23cb2d2401b87bf4f6a604aa1a78b93ffc9a29bc@i2pn2.org> <v6v2t1$3pmjn$3@dont-email.me> <3fc6548531f91ed14a27420caf9679a634573ed0@i2pn2.org> <v70lmo$61d8$1@dont-email.me> <8a6e6d9ff49aabe2525ce5729a439c807de4768a@i2pn2.org> <34Ocnd4voeWlDAn7nZ2dnZfqnPudnZ2d@brightview.co.uk> <v725d7$hlvg$1@dont-email.me> <aa7643b6d8c46d2c4dd5ef92ae3650afe114adbb@i2pn2.org> <v734ct$mjis$2@dont-email.me> <056325e336f81a50f4fb9e60f90934eaac823d22@i2pn2.org> <v73gk2$obtd$1@dont-email.me> <e2958e7ea04d53590c79b53bfb4bc9dff468772b@i2pn2.org> <v742r2$s48s$2@dont-email.me> <210383b2ee318f68a96d94aec314ee8b93f79b7f@i2pn2.org> <v75u22$19j7l$4@dont-email.me> <fde630817c49562bc765bdbc98e16a1582bcad53@i2pn2.org> <v78mda$1smtm$2@dont-email.me> <v7d5cl$2t3ja$1@dont-email.me> <v7ds0o$30pvh$3@dont-email.me>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2024 10:21:30 +0200 (CEST)
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="5784efadfdc82885ffa40999fe6bc62a";
	logging-data="3641863"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org";	posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/4xCEeVb4F8zIMwnR6dAGp"
User-Agent: Unison/2.2
Cancel-Lock: sha1:dggdr1QheafTQBJv3tXxwuYlmHM=
Bytes: 4627

On 2024-07-19 14:08:24 +0000, olcott said:

> On 7/19/2024 2:42 AM, Mikko wrote:
>> On 2024-07-17 15:02:01 +0000, olcott said:
>> 
>>> On 7/16/2024 1:06 PM, joes wrote:
>>>> Am Tue, 16 Jul 2024 08:54:10 -0500 schrieb olcott:
>>>>> On 7/16/2024 3:23 AM, joes wrote:
>>>>>> Am Mon, 15 Jul 2024 16:03:30 -0500 schrieb olcott:
>>>>>>> On 7/15/2024 3:58 PM, joes wrote:
>>>>>>>> Am Mon, 15 Jul 2024 10:52:34 -0500 schrieb olcott:
>>>>>>>>> On 7/15/2024 9:04 AM, joes wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Am Mon, 15 Jul 2024 07:23:57 -0500 schrieb olcott:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/15/2024 3:59 AM, joes wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Am Sun, 14 Jul 2024 22:35:03 -0500 schrieb olcott:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 7/14/2024 10:02 PM, Mike Terry wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Any input that must be aborted to prevent the non termination of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> simulating termination analyzer HHH necessarily specifies
>>>>>>>>>>>>> non-halting behavior or it would never need to be aborted.
>>>>>>>>>>>> It's just that the input HHH halts and does not need to be
>>>>>>>>>>>> aborted.
>>>>>>>>>>> At the point that it is aborted it did need to be aborted
>>>>>>>>>> Because it hadn't halted yet?
>>>>>>>>> Because HHH has seen a repeating state that proves that DDD
>>>>>>>>> correctly emulated by HHH cannot possibly ever stop running unless
>>>>>>>>> aborted.
>>>>>>>> Which state is it that repeats forever?
>>>>>>> *It had never been which state DOES repeat forever*
>>>>>>> *It has always been which state WOULD repeat forever if not aborted*
>>>>>> Well then, which state of HHH would repeat forever?
>>>>> It is not "which state of HHH would repeat forever?"
>>>>> It is: Which state of HHH would repeat forever if not aborted?
>>> 
>>>> Those two are the same, but different to what you said above.
>>>> HHH does not repeat forever because it makes sure to stop simulating
>>>> anything that does.
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> I proved that they are not the same in the part that
>>> you skipped.
>> 
>> Wat makes you think any part was skipped?
> 
> You skipped the part at the bottom.

So you just say so wothout any reason to say so?

There is no proof at the bottom of <v75u22$19j7l$4@dont-email.me>.

> Infinite_Loop() repeats until aborted.

There is no Infinite_Loopn at the bottom of <v75u22$19j7l$4@dont-email.me>.
Besides it is none of the HHH or DDD, so not relevant to my comment.

> When we use your incorrect reasoning we would conclude
> that Infinite_Loop() is not an infinite loop because it
> only repeats until aborted and is aborted.

You and your HHH can reason or at least conclude correctly about
Infinite_Loop but not about DDD. Possibly because it prefers to
say "no", which is correct about Infinte_loop but not about DDD.

-- 
Mikko