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From: Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2024 12:32:28 +0300
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On 2024-07-19 14:41:47 +0000, olcott said:

> On 7/19/2024 4:00 AM, Mikko wrote:
>> On 2024-07-16 18:27:35 +0000, olcott said:
>> 
>>> On 7/16/2024 3:20 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>> On 2024-07-15 20:56:21 +0000, olcott said:
>>>> 
>>>>> On 7/15/2024 3:51 PM, joes wrote:
>>>>>> Am Mon, 15 Jul 2024 08:51:14 -0500 schrieb olcott:
>>>>>>> On 7/15/2024 3:37 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2024-07-15 03:41:24 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>>>> On 7/14/2024 9:04 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 7/14/24 9:27 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Any input that must be aborted to prevent the non termination of
>>>>>>>>>>> simulating termination analyzer HHH necessarily specifies
>>>>>>>>>>> non-halting behavior or it would never need to be aborted.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Excpet, as I have shown, it doesn't.
>>>>>>>>>> Your problem is you keep on ILEGALLY changing the input in your
>>>>>>>>>> argument because you have misdefined what the input is.
>>>>>>>>>> The input to HHH is ALL of the memory that it would be accessed in a
>>>>>>>>>> correct simulation of DDD, which includes all the codd of HHH, and
>>>>>>>>>> thus, if you change HHH you get a different input.
>>>>>>>>>> If you want to try to claim the input is just the bytes of the
>>>>>>>>>> function DDD proper then you are just admitting that you are nothing
>>>>>>>>>> more than a lying idiot that doesn't understand the problem,
>>>>>>>>> Turing machines only operate on finite strings they do not operate on
>>>>>>>>> other Turing machines *dumbo*
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> That's right. But the finite string can be a description of a Turing
>>>>>>>> machine.
>>>>>>> No that is wrong. The finite string must encode a Turing machine.
>>>>>> Same difference.
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Not at all. The huge mistake of all these years is that
>>>>> people stupidly expected that HHH to report on the behavior
>>>>> of its own executing Turing machine.
>>>> 
>>>> No, the error is that HHH report on its own behavour instead of the
>>>> behaviour specified by its inputs. Nobody expects that your programs
>>>> do anything interesting or useful.
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> HHH computes the mapping from this finite string: 
>>> 558bec6863210000e853f4ffff83c4045dc3
>>> to non-halting behavior because this finite string
>>> calls HHH(DDD) in recursive simulation.
>> 
>> But it does not compute any interesting mapping. You cannot even specify
>> the mapping wiohout a reference to HHH.
>> 
> 
>  > You cannot even specify the mapping wiohout a reference to HHH.
> Of course I can't. I am not so ridiculously stupid to believe
> that we can just ignore the fact that DDD does call HHH(DDD) in
> recursive simulation.

Fortunate the mapping is so uninteresting that you needn't.

-- 
Mikko