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From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true?
 --- Honest Dialogue
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2024 09:25:36 -0500
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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On 7/20/2024 4:15 AM, Mikko wrote:
> On 2024-07-19 14:49:46 +0000, olcott said:
> 
>> On 7/19/2024 4:14 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>> On 2024-07-18 14:18:51 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>
>>>> When you are hungry you remain hungry until you eat.
>>>>    Before HHH(DDD) aborts its emulation the directly
>>>>    executed DDD() cannot possibly halt.
>>>>
>>>> After you eat you are no longer hungry.
>>>>    After HHH(DDD) aborts its emulation the directly
>>>>    executed DDD() halts.
>>>
>>> If DDD does not halt it indicates that HHH is faulty. Therefore the
>>> interesting question is whether DDD halts, not when DDD halts.
> 
> This time I made a typo that is much worse than my usual typos.
> Pro "when DDD halts" lege "when HHH halts".
> 
>> *By your same reasoning*
>> If Infinite_Loop() does not halt HHH is faulty.
> 
> No, the reasoning must be differ. Infinite_Loop can be proven to halt
> by a simple inspection of a short code. Similar simple inspection of
> DDD reveals that DDD does halt if HHH halts but not whether HHH halts.
> Therefore the interesting question, needed to complete the proof, is
> whether HHH halts. If that can be determined the question about DDD
> is easy.
> 
>> In other words if Infinite_Loop()  is an actual infinite
>> loop then this is all the fault of HHH.
> 
> Nothing is the fault of HHH. If a program is faulty it is the fault
> of the author of the program. Usually an infinite loop is a fault
> but that depends on the purpose and specification of the program.
> Sometimes a program is faulty if it does terminate.
> 

*Until you understand that this is true*
*we cannot have an honest dialogue*

_DDD()
[00002163] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping
[00002164] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping
[00002166] 6863210000 push 00002163 ; push DDD
[0000216b] e853f4ffff call 000015c3 ; call HHH(DDD)
[00002170] 83c404     add esp,+04
[00002173] 5d         pop ebp
[00002174] c3         ret
Size in bytes:(0018) [00002174]

int main()
{
   DDD();
}

Calls HHH(DDD) that must abort the emulation of its input
or {HHH, emulated DDD and executed DDD} never stop running.


-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer