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Path: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> Newsgroups: comp.theory Subject: Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Honest Dialogue ? Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2024 12:38:37 +0300 Organization: - Lines: 64 Message-ID: <v7ikut$1l1s$1@dont-email.me> References: <v644pn$29t4h$3@dont-email.me> <v6gv65$to0m$1@dont-email.me> <v6h2li$ud7p$1@dont-email.me> <v6h2rm$ue7s$1@dont-email.me> <v6h3cu$ud7p$2@dont-email.me> <v6h83q$vag9$1@dont-email.me> <v6ikgb$19f5g$1@dont-email.me> <v6jgjo$1ctoi$4@dont-email.me> <v6lckp$1qi9e$1@dont-email.me> <v6m2qq$1tj30$6@dont-email.me> <60a1c2490e9bd9a5478fd173a20ed64d5eb158f9@i2pn2.org> <v6nvn8$2bn6q$1@dont-email.me> <v6oqti$2fuva$7@dont-email.me> <v6qn6k$2ubkt$1@dont-email.me> <v6r9q1$30qtt$5@dont-email.me> <v6tbge$3gegs$1@dont-email.me> <v6tqlm$3imib$5@dont-email.me> <v6vvid$24jd$1@dont-email.me> <v70mih$61d8$3@dont-email.me> <v72i9m$jne3$1@dont-email.me> <v7367p$mjis$8@dont-email.me> <v755m4$15kf6$1@dont-email.me> <v75vl9$19j7l$7@dont-email.me> <v77p77$1nm3r$1@dont-email.me> <v78fa7$1rc43$2@dont-email.me> <v7agsg$2am9u$1@dont-email.me> <v7b4l2$2e2aq$2@dont-email.me> <v7d9el$2tp5s$1@dont-email.me> <v7dtqt$30pvh$6@dont-email.me> <v7fu0f$3ff7c$1@dont-email.me> <v7ge24$3hlc2$4@dont-email.me> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2024 11:38:38 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="1f5c38cb1d642fc23c3b2cf82fcecc29"; logging-data="54332"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/SpSfo6WbzmJLubRjnmj7u" User-Agent: Unison/2.2 Cancel-Lock: sha1:wMz/kmCAlK57+V7GokWemO/cyX0= Bytes: 4490 On 2024-07-20 13:28:36 +0000, olcott said: > On 7/20/2024 3:54 AM, Mikko wrote: >> On 2024-07-19 14:39:25 +0000, olcott said: >> >>> On 7/19/2024 3:51 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>> On 2024-07-18 13:17:22 +0000, olcott said: >>>> >>>>> On 7/18/2024 2:40 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>> On 2024-07-17 13:00:55 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 7/17/2024 1:43 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>> On 2024-07-16 14:21:28 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> When simulated input DDD stops running {if and only if} >>>>>>>>> the simulation of this input DDD has been aborted this >>>>>>>>> necessitates that input DDD specifies non-halting behavior >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> DDD does not stop runnig unless it is completely exeuted. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _DDD() >>>>>>> [00002163] 55 push ebp ; housekeeping >>>>>>> [00002164] 8bec mov ebp,esp ; housekeeping >>>>>>> [00002166] 6863210000 push 00002163 ; push DDD >>>>>>> [0000216b] e853f4ffff call 000015c3 ; call HHH(DDD) >>>>>>> [00002170] 83c404 add esp,+04 >>>>>>> [00002173] 5d pop ebp >>>>>>> [00002174] c3 ret >>>>>>> Size in bytes:(0018) [00002174] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> DDD emulated by HHH according to the semantic meaning of >>>>>>> its x86 instructions never stop running unless aborted. >>>>>> >>>>>> You mean HHH's simulation of DDD may not termite before HHH aborts it? >>>>> >>>>> When we examine the infinite set of every HHH/DDD pair such that: >>>>> HHH₁ one step of DDD₁ is correctly emulated by HHH₁. >>>>> HHH₂ two steps of DDD₂ are correctly emulated by HHH₂. >>>>> HHH₃ three steps of DDD₃ are correctly emulated by HHH₃. >>>>> ... >>>>> HHH∞ The emulation of DDD∞ by HHH∞ never stops running. >>>>> >>>>> When each DDD of the HHH/DDD pairs above is correctly emulated >>>>> by its corresponding HHH according to the semantic meaning of its >>>>> x86 instructions it CANNOT POSSIBLY reach past its own machine >>>>> address 0000216b, not even by an act of God. >>>> >>>> You apparently mean that no HHHᵢ can simulate the corresponding DDDᵢ to >>>> its termination? >>> >>> No I don't mean that at all that incorrectly allocates the error >>> to the emulator. >> >> Anyway you did not say that some HHHᵢ can simulate the corresponding DDDᵢ >> to its termination. And each DDDᵢ does terminate, whether simulated or not. > > *Until you quit lying about this we cannot have an honest dialog* I don't believe that you can have a honest dialog, at least not without a chairman who wants to and can keep the dialog honest. -- Mikko