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Path: ...!2.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> Newsgroups: comp.theory Subject: Re: Who here understands that the last paragraph is Necessarily true? --- Self-Modifying Turing Machine Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2024 08:58:56 -0500 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 46 Message-ID: <v7j470$3o7r$5@dont-email.me> References: <v6un9t$3nufp$1@dont-email.me> <v7013v$2ccv$1@dont-email.me> <v70nt7$61d8$6@dont-email.me> <58fc6559638120b31e128fe97b5e955248afe218@i2pn2.org> <v71mjh$bp3i$1@dont-email.me> <1173a460ee95e0ca82c08abecdefc80ba86646ac@i2pn2.org> <v71okl$bvm2$1@dont-email.me> <5f6daf68f1b4ffac854d239282bc811b5b806659@i2pn2.org> <v71ttb$crk4$1@dont-email.me> <60e7a93cb8cec0afb68b3e40a0e82e9d63fa8e2a@i2pn2.org> <v721po$h4kr$1@dont-email.me> <v73td3$qkp2$6@dont-email.me> <v73tvs$qpi9$1@dont-email.me> <v74n81$13bn1$1@dont-email.me> <fafa57d75cf800c930c76530acd72148c77fff87@i2pn2.org> <v75ul2$19j7l$5@dont-email.me> <v77s2f$1o4oh$1@dont-email.me> <v78gi1$1rc43$6@dont-email.me> <v7d5r0$2t5hr$1@dont-email.me> <v7dsit$30pvh$4@dont-email.me> <v7fucc$3fh57$1@dont-email.me> <v7gcjm$3hlc2$1@dont-email.me> <v7ilo8$1pf7$1@dont-email.me> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2024 15:58:57 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="9ab67b95e26d71c9bf3d4bab69c0e6c7"; logging-data="123131"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX182rcW7OQ0JBfK5yzzm9dKG" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cancel-Lock: sha1:10lkk3lO+4zeAMeYHNu5VdgZxeQ= In-Reply-To: <v7ilo8$1pf7$1@dont-email.me> Content-Language: en-US Bytes: 3410 On 7/21/2024 4:52 AM, Mikko wrote: > On 2024-07-20 13:03:50 +0000, olcott said: > >> On 7/20/2024 4:01 AM, Mikko wrote: >>> On 2024-07-19 14:18:05 +0000, olcott said: >>> >>>> When a Self-Modifying Turing Machine can change itself to become >>>> any other Turing Machine then it can eliminate the pathological >>>> relationship to its input. >>> >>> It never was a Turing machine. >>> >> >> A self modifying TM is merely a TM description that is >> simulated by a UTM and has access to itself on the UTM >> tape. > > No, it is not. I invented it thus that is the specification of my invention. > A TM description describes a TM that does not change itself. X is not typically understood to do Y therefore it is impossible for X to do Y is incorrect reasoning. > If it is executed as self-modifying that exectuion is not simulation, as > a simulation does not do what the simulated does not do. A simulator that > simulates a self-modifying automaton is not an UTM. > That you fail to understand that an emulated x86 program can modify itself to change its own behavior as long as it knows its own machine address is merely ignorance on your part. When a simulated Turing Machine Description is provided access to itself on the UTM tape it can do the same thing. Rigid minded people incorrectly conflate unconventional for impossible. -- Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer